Politics isn't the only thing they have their hand up

posted by A on 2015/5/8 (Comics)

So... The puppet thing hasn't worked out. It was intended to make this story arc easy to get past it nice and quick, and back to the main plot. It didn't work, and I ended up kinda... frozen in panic? Dyluthus kicked my ass back into gear and figured out a way to get past it. Here you go! more coming!

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Tiri - 2017/3/27
I'd like to try that too.

Page 350: A gigantic meteorite smashes into the campaign world and kills everything on it.

The End.

Nona Reverse - 2017/3/24
I am about to go reread the comic up to Quentas's horribly-executed introduction. If the site is still around, and the comments aren't disabled, and I'm not abducted by ninjas or whatever, I'll post a synopsis of how I would continue the story, plus dialogue and descriptions for the next one-hundred or one-hundred-and-fifty pages as I envision them. Please tell me if it's a bad idea! I'm starting NOW!

talkamancer - 2017/3/21
Still here.

Tiri - 2017/3/8
Refer to the part of my comment which says 'claims', W.

Good for you, I suppose, Graysire.

Graysire - 2017/3/7
I check this daily..

W. - 2017/3/2
Never ?
I have on sure sources that this website will have stopped being hosted on the current server in at most 5 bn years.
(or 'at most 20 year', in both case said server would not be functioning anymore)

Tiri - 2017/3/1
Until Crazed lets the domain expire, which he claims he will never do.

Pablo Atristain - 2017/2/28
Wow! Almost 2 years and no updates! How long do you think this is gonna hold before vanishing?

W. - 2017/2/28
Yet we react 'all' successively in less than a day.
coincidence ? probably.

pn, Where did you read "more coming" ?the only thing possibly coming is released summary notes and that is far from guarranted.

Tiri - 2017/2/28
I doubt anyone checks this daily anymore.

pn - 2017/2/27
"More coming" my arse.

Anon - 2017/2/27
You know who we haven't heard from in a while? JHSII. I wonder if they still check this daily.

W. - 2017/2/9
This still existing website make me think of https://xkcd.com/1305/
In both case, the purpose of the site is being replaced by an effective delayed chatroom for those that once found it

Darth Varanax - 2017/2/3
Dear god writer at least upload a plot dump. I would take a hastily typed pdf at this point.

Lady - 2017/1/31

The Ancient One - 2017/1/30
If they are all dead, I wonder if we can still summon their ghosts to reveal the plot. You know, like some sort of ghost ... writer. (badumtish) Wink

Tiri - 2017/1/30
As far as I'm concerned, everyone working on this comic died in a freak accident a long time ago.

Nona Reverse - 2017/1/28
(I accept no blame for the following fanfiction's comparative lack quality. Complaints relating to OoC behavior, a self-aggrandizing portrayal of the author, terrible prose, or psychological, spiritual, psychospiritual and physical damage incurred by readers will go ignored. Thank you and enjoy.)
Ertai glances across the immense, bloodstained chamber at the water clock, thirty-three obsidian bowls on stone tiers. Dark liquid pours from the container on the highest tier, down to the bowls in lower elevations. The bottommost tier has overflowed. Gentle drips emanating from the clepsydra are painfully loud in an otherwise silent room.
"It's been five days," Ertai notes.
Nona Reverse spreads both hands, as if to deny responsibility. "I've said it once before, this must end."
"there are other ways," W. states. %u201Cit is not right to try to attack the authers.%u201D
Anon scoffs. "They abused all their chances. They should have expected this." A violent, chopping gesture perfectly summarizes the point. "Let this punish their apathy."
Dry-mouthed, Nona Reverse says, "I suggest we revisit the vote." Reluctantly, they all exchange nods, an agreement between summoners about to perform a dread ritual.
Nona Reverse smiles at the door through which talkamancer exited the room. "It'll take a few days for all the votes to be cast. See, talkamancer? We're giving your way a second try. But, I was right, you know %u2013 This must end."

W. - 2017/1/27
"is not dead what can eternally lie, and with great eons, even comic may die"

they may have forgotten, they may not have time, they may be dead. but we remember.
Also not posting the last page is not really rude (just a bit frustrating): they never guarranted they would be one more

I notice that you didnt quote all the frequent poster

Talkamancer - 2017/1/23
Threw that on Leaking Pen's facebook page earlier. Hoping the fact I put some effort in might get him here with the plot synopsis.

Talkamancer - 2017/1/23
I looked around the virtual chatroom, Ertai, Talkamancer, Nona Reverse, The Ancient one, they were all here. All ready to start the evocation. All ready to commence the chant that would bring Leaking Pen and Dyluth before us. All excited to finally get the closure for the project that Zara's original idea deserved. The Ancient one stepped up to the pedestal, inserted his twopenneth and drew upon the ancient forces that have dwelled within him since the dawn of time. This time the authors would have no choice but to appear, dragged from their sleeping beds if need be, placed upon the dias and made to atone for the disgraseful way they had treated the loyal readership. "Stop" cried talkermancer, "He promised to get something to us by thanksgiving, maybe by xmas, maybe by February, let us not end it in this violent way, give them a chance, let them forget the promise of a page of prose, a photo of the original plot, posted to the website is all any of us need". Nona Reverse raised an eyebrow, "this must end" he repeated "But, I am willing to put this to the vote. those willing to delay the invocation for 5 more days say aye." silence and a shuffling of feet before one after another hands were raised. "ok Talkermancer" said The Ancient One, "you have your way. We wait, but something must be forthcoming, the ritual can be delayed but we must have closure". Breathing a sigh of relief, Talkermancer left the room, his message to deliver,
Boyant in the knowledge he had saved a life this night, perhaps even two.

Talkamancer - 2017/1/23
TBH it pisses me off that they can't just scan and post the original content that they were given when they took over the comic. I contacted Alexander Hollins in October last year and he said he wanted to do a final update as "prose". Bollocks to prose, that's just work and obviously he don't do work. A photo of a page of text, uploaded to the comic and that's it...Closure. But no, lets just keep everyone hanging on. I'm in England and we would say it's just bloody rude.

The Ancient One - 2017/1/22
Really was hoping that they would have posted at least a page of the epilogue by this point. I don't have a lot of hope left that they will ever post a more graphical end post.

Graysire - 2017/1/19
Hey guys, I've been checking this comment chain for a long while now, despite being here I've been completely silent, I kind wanted to let you know that you have more people standing with you.

talkamancer - 2017/1/4
I tried, I even got an answer, but again nothing. Let us hope to get something this year. Happy new year guys.

W. - 2017/1/3
only six ?
There are probably a few who just pass from time to tim, silently.
Happy new year

c0rw1n - 2017/1/2
yeah, happy new year folk ... all six? of us

Ertai - 2016/12/30
There aren't that many of us left... but thanks Happy Happy New Year to everyone ^^

Nona Reverse - 2016/12/27
Sorry if I'm clogging up the comments. I want to Dypen and other, rapidly-aging anti-HEROES fans a belated Merry Christmas/Festivus, or Happy Hanukkah/Kwanzaa!

I - 2016/11/26
Well, it's after Thanksgiving there in Americs. Hope they had a good one.

talkamancer - 2016/10/24
I wrote to Leakingpen on facebook, this is his reply..........The Leaking Pen Alexander Hollins , I am going to make a graphhic that will have some prose closing out the current story arc, which was going to be a main stopping point/ end of book one originally. Please keep poking me to work on it, I want to post it bythanksgiving.

Avetzan - 2016/10/19
Has there been any news whatsoever on what is happening with this comic? or the infodump? or anything?

Nona Reverse - 2016/9/5
Thanks, MorBain! I'll keep that link, too. I feel like you just gave me a horrifying, Ghost-of-Christmas-Future-style glimpse into the future of anti-HEROES, but in regards to DisReality Gears I stand corrected. So Dypen suddenly stopped updating all of their projects at once? Hope Leakingpen and Dyluth are healthy. Or living cool alternate lives in their respective comas.

MorBain - 2016/9/5
DisReality Gears had a short run then suddenly stopped. Eventually the site lost hosting. I still have the link just in case it came back.

Tiri - 2016/9/5
As much as the metaphorical doornail, yes. We never even got the promised plot dump.

Onomatopoeia - 2016/9/3
So is this thing dead?

Nona Reverse - 2016/8/18
Overly-long post, bad formatting with all those little numbers and symbols, called Eldhin 'Aldin,' and expressed an opinion. After a two year break, I sure got bad at making comments.

Nona Reverse - 2016/8/18
One of the details I think frequently contributed to make anti-HEROES a better webcomic than OotS, was that while OotS used literary tropes to craft battle scenes and story elements, anti-HEROES had a comic book style. An example is when Turrick%u2019s guard told Lana to attack him, got into a fighting stance, and a moment before she moved a sword went through his chest and Aldin walked from off-panel uttering a one-liner. There is no logical way that could have been a surprise attack, since Lane was facing his way. The %u2018surprise death%u2019 trick was used in comic books, movies and television shows because it is an abbreviated type of dramatic, violent twist that does not take much setup, and in a visual medium like a webcomic this works perfectly. And then Dypen came along and made anti-HEROES like a book series, in that I will wait seven years for them to put out another chapter. After seven years, I%u2019ll lose hope, but d**n if I%u2019ll stop commenting.

(I hope they are physically okay. On the other hand, Leakingpen raised a little under six hundred dollars for DisReality Gears on Kickstarter, and never wrote or drew a single thing after pimping it on anti-HEROES. If he is not dead, or in a two-year coma dreaming he never had that car accident and moved to a Florida beachfront condo where he became a reputable impressionist painter with a reclusive reputation, then he is a thief.)

The Ancient One - 2016/8/15
Just read all of Servants of the Imperium the other day. It was a nice story and great way of doing a wrap-up when a comic publication ends before its time.

Such a shame that comic ended, the characters were well defined and could have had many good adventures.

c0rw1n - 2016/8/11
please just do a plot dump like http://www.servantsoftheimperium.com/comic.php did

i beg, i beseech you

how hard could it possibly be to do so

Nona Reverse - 2016/8/7
I am returned. I wanted to type another comment because it makes me feel like a necromancer. Kind of like Aldran? . . . Guy in the black robe? Anyone remember Aldran?

Talkamancer - 2016/7/24
I felt the original story was going somewhere, Jordan don't care about the readership he built up. I'd pay at this stage to get the plot synopsis so I never have to read "praise banjo" again in a forlorn attempt to find an update.

W. - 2016/7/4
If you forgot the plot, you can still reread for a time.
also, for information : it wont update again, the only novelty will come from the other disabused (or not) commenter

sad face - 2016/7/3
also I forgot the entire plot what's even happening

sad face - 2016/7/3
I just feel like. One update every 6 months or even just he old plot dump would have been better than the authorship change they made it so lackluster and contrived and b..bring and then they died?

Doctor McCoy - 2016/6/26
(checks for a pulse) "It's STILL dead, Jim!"

Bain - 2016/6/25

Bain - 2016/6/22
Why it isn not continuing?

W. - 2016/6/15
A comment a day keeps the domain, always ...

How should we necro this comment section in order to make it a vampire ?

I really feel alone here.

W. - 2016/5/31
even better : have a druid in tree form with a random animal (or the druid companion) nearby.

MorBain - 2016/5/29
As a DM I recently used Natural Spell with a druid to torment my players. First Call lightning to get them riled up. They even made a spot check to see the eagle up in the tree. Then as the gnolls attacked I used heat metal. Then as the gnolls made their escape I casted Entangle then spike growth on the brush behind them. The barbarian charged into the brush getting caught 2nd step in. The Raptoran cleric tried to fly but failed having already used up her flying until she rests climbed up after the eagle thinking to talk to it. The druid waited for her to get close the just flew to the next tree. It was so much fun as they argued on whether or not to attack the eagle.

Gerald - 2016/5/16
I guess we all missed the one year anniversary of the last update.

Tiri - 2016/4/21
Yeah, but not Natural Spell, which is the feat you were referring to.

W. - 2016/4/21
a mage get a feat at level 5 (of mage) and at level 6 (global)
the first one is a class feature , and must be chosen in the mage list or metamagic feat.
Static incantation is a metamagic feat.

Tiri - 2016/4/19
Also, to clarify, it only works for druids because it only works in Wild Shape. Which only druids have, as far as I can remember.

Tiri - 2016/4/19
Well, by 'we' I meant me and Zergling. Ok, so, Animal Incantation. In the English version it's called Natural Spell, and only works for druids. It also doesn't change the components, it just somehow allows the druid to supply them while in animal form. I also would like to point out that you get a feat at 6th level, not 5th.

W. - 2016/4/18
we are ?
I was thinking of a variant of unicorn.
But in the case of caster level , any 3 class level grant a feat ( 1 at lvl 5 wizard) so 'animal incantation' is on the table.
If your version doesnt have it, it is a metamagic feat aimed originaly at druid in order to cast while using animal form, changing the somatic, verbal and material component (removing the latter when costing less than a po, or gp) to adjust to any animal.

Tiri - 2016/4/18
Spell-like abilities don't need somatic components, true. Creatures with natural spellcasting can substitute bodily movements for somatic components, true. However, we are discussing a unicorn with spellcasting levels, which would absolutely need to move its hands in a precise manner to cast spells with somatic components. Yes, it makes no sense, but there's RAW for you.

W. - 2016/4/17
Those creatures may have spell-like ability.
Those dont require any components.
Aurak cast as sorcerer 8 as spell like ability
Nymph cast as druid 8 as spell like . Many exterior have either priest level or like solar cast as priest n as spell like ability.

In these case they dont need somatic component at all.
And dragon ... can have both at the same time.

Tiri - 2016/4/17
Zergling, go read the RAW on somatic components. It may be silly, seeing how large of a percentage of creatures in D&D are barred from spellcasting because of it (unless they take Surrogate Spellcasting), but that's, officially, how the rules work.

Cassie - 2016/4/16
That's a smart way of thiinnkg about it.

Destrie - 2016/4/14
I am forever indebted to you for this inmfnoatior.

Geodude - 2016/4/13
RIP in peas this comic

ZerglingOne - 2016/4/7
@Tiri Somatic components have nothing to do with hands specifically, it's whatever motions a specific species must go through to cast magic. In the case of a unicorn, that would likely be various forms of prancing and horn waving...or something along those lines. Unless you were just being silly, which is entirely acceptable.

W. - 2016/3/31
i meant : no unicorn in OOTS or AH
There are unicorn in D&D french handbook of course.

The Ancient One - 2016/3/30
My comment which now mirrors the issue count of the comic... Sad

Tiri - 2016/3/30
There is a unicorn. It's in the Monster Manual. Of course, based on your comments I can now see that the inconsistency between the French and English D&D is rather great. Whole feats and monsters seem to have been added and omitted.

W. - 2016/3/29
sadly there were no unicorn to confirm or infirm these theories.

Now, in the bestiary, and still on rainbow subject, what fey are best suited to hide a chest of gold beneath one ?
One would probably need silent image permanence for a static rainbow.

On the subject of the feat, the 4 dc is the dc of a spellcraft check, not the save dc.
The feat is originally 3.0 (the source given by the website is player handbook) and may not appears in 3.5 and pathfinder handbooks.
Beside, at first glance it looks like only a roleplaying feat, until one notice the usefull 1 caster level.

Tiri - 2016/3/28
That link doesn't work for me, sorry. Anyway, I suppose a unicorn could take levels in Wizard or Sorcerer if it really wanted to cast those spells. Also get someone to tie a wooden hand to its leg for somatic components.

W. - 2016/3/27
then it is probably not spell thematic.
my source is here : http://www.gemmaline.com/dons/dons-signature-magique-229.htm.
I dont know the original name of the spell

Tiri - 2016/3/27
Erm... What you just described bears almost no resemblance to the English version of Spell Thematics. It isn't even the the PHB!
The only thing it does in the English version is give the Spellcraft DC bonus.

W. - 2016/3/26
Well technically, we are speaking off the likelihood of existence of unicorn with specific characteristics in a D&D inspired universe.
My argument is that dancing light is level 1 vs creation level 3. so farting rainbow is at least as easy.

And this feat , in french version at least, but i trust the translator to stay near the VO allow :
> for all spell 4 to spellcraft DC to identify
>For ech level of spell a "thematic" spell is chosen changing completely the appearance of the spell making it unidentifyable and adding 1 to spellcaster level.
prerequisite : NLS profane 1
Origin : player handbook.

I used it together with "thesard arcanique" to have a missile force mage with 6 missile (looking like dark birds) per spell at level 6

Tiri - 2016/3/25
The feat you mean is Spell Thematics. It does nothing except give a -2 penalty to Spellcraft to identify the spell, and is basically useless since spellcasters can choose the visual manifestation of spells. Which is all irrelevant, as we are talking about SLAs, not spells. Also, how is the rainbow part easier than gold? The unicorn as presented in D&D is equally incapable of both.

W. - 2016/3/25
neither have they "creation" for etrenning gold.
We are discussing the difficulty (thematique ? ) of having a pseudo DD unicorn conform to common real life unicorn belief (real life belief, not RL unicorn)
And i was saying that the rainbow part is easier than the gold .

All that for the fun of a discussion that will appears as nonsensical as possible to outsider.

And as for the spell issued from the hand, their is a rarely used feat, (but so usefull) that alter the appearance of both the spell and its casting (in this case the location of origin) of one spell per spell level, making them unreconisable through spellcraft check and giving those spell 1 caster level .
in french "sort de signature"
in VO :"signature spells" i guess ?

Tiri - 2016/3/24
Except that a unicorn does not have colour spray as an SLA.

W. - 2016/3/24
In the case of the spell.
Spell like ability are similar to spell and can vary a bit.

Beside, unicorn don't have hand (although every unicorn i encountered thus far had 3).

Nethertheless, this effect is a 1st level illusion effect, so in line with a magical light animal.

Tiri - 2016/3/23
Well, that spell specifically states that the spray of colour comes from the hands.

Nona Reverse - 2016/3/21
""A vivid cone of clashing colors. . . causing creatures to become stunned, perhaps also blinded, and possibly knocking them unconscious."

Weaponized rainbow farts. So like Mr. Toots from Red Faction: Armageddon.

W. - 2016/3/20
color spray.

Tiri - 2016/3/19
I was not aware of the spell 'Fart Rainbow'.

W. - 2016/3/16
Since we are in a D&D setting, in order to fart rainbow, only a lvl 1 spell, thematically near the idea of unicorn is needed.

As for gold creation, you would need ( i believe) a level 3 spell.
So it would be easier.

For real world (for a certain definition of real) : farting rainbow only need spraying water in a peculiar lighting (sunset or dawn, or with a hobbit as the witness)
or a mix o oil and water for more reliable iridecens.

On the other hand, gold is toxic in most forms (heavy metal) and heavy, chlorin is also toxic, meaning an equide stocking it would be constantly poisonned and impeded.

Nona Reverse - 2016/3/14
the christian god is a non carnivorous unicorn!"

After the continuity established between 332 comments, anything taken out of context sounds so bizarre. On the presumed excretory habits of unicorns, I must say that a mechanism used to fart rainbows seems more superfluous than an organ allowing gold excretions. To produce an aerosol with an opalescent sheen, would require a system of organs to first process needed chemicals, and then to eject them from the unicorn in a spray, which making assumptions about their biology based on a superficial resemblance to earthly equines should be completely independent of required organ systems. Whether you argue intelligent design or evolution, that's killing one bird with two stones. Comparably, to excrete gold from a reserve as was proposed earlier in the discussion, a unicorn could repurpose parts of the digestive tract if they expel entire pellets, rather than gold flecks in their manure. The diet of a unicorn in the feywild may include larger amounts of gold(III) chloride than are found concentrated in the natural world. Perhaps they excrete a single large golden nugget once every several weeks or months?

W. - 2016/3/9
gasp !
the christian god is a non carnivorous unicorn !

As shown, the MitD doesnt know what he is, although Xikon does. Hence, he cannot be on a mission, and cannot be specifically harmful to the lich.

In fact, we even know (wog somewhere) that he is a safety measure of Xykon against Redcloak, in case the latter decide to betray him (and if Xykon knows it)

So there can still be an unicorn in the comic. (unlikely)

If the comic (AH this time) were rewritten epured, what would you suggest to keep/throw away ?

Tiri - 2016/3/9
That's not saying much; similarly, you also couldn't prove that he's not secretly the Christian God who is going undercover on a secret mission to take Xykon down because he can't destroy him directly because of restrictions he placed on himself for undefined reasons and is, from within the comic, mind-controlling Rich Burlew to write him into it. So go on, claim MitD is anything you want. There's no way we can disprove it, but it means absolutely nothing.

W. - 2016/3/6
you cannot prove thet the MitD is not a purple carnivorous unicorn.
except not carnivorous since he enjoy eating gruel.

To pablo : the comic has been discontinued, although someone payed the fee for the website and a few people enjoy coming back to reread and fuel a discussion with like or unlike minded people.

Tiri - 2016/3/5
What do you mean?

Pablo Atristain - 2016/3/4
Almost a year left behind... Yipee key Aye Ey MF...

Tiri - 2016/2/28

W. - 2016/2/26
(edit because the previous version below is too aggressive)

Yes it was narrow, on purpose to generate discussion, promote an alternate point of view and keep people coming back.

On that last point it seemed like a success.
Is there any unicorn in AH ? or in OOTS ?

W. - 2016/2/20
Actually, i was presenting a possible view as possible.
Carnivorousness is not evil, except when it is precised as being mostly living human meat.
From an human point of view.

Tiri - 2016/2/18
Whoops, copy and paste went wrong. I meant to say: On the subject of unicorns being carnivorous, I don't think there really is any source that explicitly says they are not carnivorous. It's just that they are based off herbivorous creatures. Also, carnivorousness is not evil or bad. Your diet isn't generally a determining factor of your 'goodness' or 'badness'. Of course, it might make you 'good' or 'bad' from the perspective of whatever you were eating.

Yes. That.

I'd also like to add that I didn't really think you were trying to impose any kind of beliefs on anyone, W, I just thought your view of the situation was a little narrow.

Tiri - 2016/2/18
The caster can erase or add memories as she sees fit and alter emotions, opinions, and even alignment.

W. - 2016/2/17
edit : about 2^100 so 100 times if they start at 1kg.

More if they use another protocole.

Farting rainbow is comparably easier.

W. - 2016/2/17
they could start with a reserve of gold inside them and pull from this reserve

Except they are immortal in some setting.

Maybe, leaving out half as much each time ?

doesnot work as matter including gold, comes with a minimal size (one atom)

said size is a 197 * 6.02 *10^26 th of a kg of gold, so about 2^100 times.

Nona Reverse - 2016/2/16
Someone once was desperate to convince me that unicorns excrete gold. What if the filthy, addled street person in question was right? Does that disprove Unicrons being carnivorous, or do their intestines transmute meat into precious metal?

W. - 2016/2/16
I read it and understand your point. I proposed a possible interpretation of a fictional culture and it seemed to shock your values.
The next time i need a image, i will only draw from authorised content (tm), or try to be clearer that i dont impose other to believe in it, just to admit the possibility.

But. new subject : unicorn are carnivorous !
(well they were intended as an exemple of light, not good creature).

Disclaimer : this is only an interpretation to lanch a discussion. If it cause aneurism, strong compulsion to prove me wrong or any other effect, please dont assume i am forcing you to believe anything.

Tiri - 2016/2/16
I admit that I actually had a false memory of what you said whose meaning was slightly different. Sorry about that. Your interpretation of that wasn't what I took issue with. Your interpretation of the nature of undeath (either in D&D or folklore) was what I disagreed with, which you would know if you actually read my main comment. Also, while lich is a Russian word, the point is that it was a term applied to many undead and undead-like creatures before D&D showed up. D&D was what gave 'lich' a real, concrete definition. The fact that the word originated from Russia is mostly irrelevant.

W. - 2016/2/15
Then you miss my point completely :
the whole thing was that the comment section still exist and is active despite the lack of comic, cannot resurrect the comic and have a fixed starting point.
> similar but distinct and less than a living webcomic. Alive, but fundamentally different.

I made a comparison that i found interesting. you think my (subjective) interpretation is wrong and focused on that.
If someone showed you a mountain looking like a woman and saying it remind them of a statue, would you correct them and spoil the poesy for all bystander ?

And lich is a Russian word, originally, so your point of DD having invented the concept of phylactery linked undead is not as strong as you think.

Tiri - 2016/2/15
Also, I think I should add that I find it really ironic that it was W's comment on how dead the comments section is and how it can never really change its topic of discussion that sparked this argument off.

Tiri - 2016/2/15
Oh! Looks like I also forgot the space between 'any' and 'case'. An extra 'wrong' appeared out of nowhere too!

Tiri - 2016/2/15
Also, faulty inverted-comma formatting. That sure helps my argument seem convincing and made by a competent individual.

Tiri - 2016/2/15

Well, true, undead and undead-like creatures in folklore do serve a purpose of being the 'other', a kind of designated enemy. However, that in no way translates to these creatures being unable to 'grow', either by your or my definition. A creature can be capable of change, either positive or negative, and still be the villain of a story. If that is something recognised now, being, as it is, a concept mostly divorced from the level of sophistication a society has achieved, it was almost certainly recognised when the folklore you reference was created. If Russian (or any other society) folklore had any sort of morals at the end of its tales, it was definitely not that becoming undead itself was bad. Undeath was just a way of identifying the bad guys, and it was the fact that these individuals had become set in their cruel ways and desensitized to the suffering of others that made them evil, true, but that had no connection to being undead. Many villains of these stories were as alive as you and I are, and yet behaved (more or less) identically to any so-called undead in other stories. Of course all of them had a choice! If not, their evil acts would have no impact. Undeath was merely a story device to show who was the enemy. It was not what made one into the enemy. The destructive acts and loss of positive emotions were present in both living and undead antagonists. That loss of positive emotion was the true cause of evil, and it could happen to anyone.

Also, I must reiterate for the umpteenth time that using any other definition of %u2018lich%u2019 other than %u2018D&D lich%u2019 is utterly meaningless due to the fact that %u2018lich%u2019, before the creation of D&D was used as a catch-all term for many different kinds of undead.

And no, I did not take it as an attack against Finx or Xykon (who are, in anycase, people I would be unlikely to defend), I simply thought that your stance on the subject and knowledge were wrong. wrong.

W. - 2016/2/15
The discussion started as i made a metaphore on the status of the comic (discontinued, but website still active -> folklore undead)

Tiri probably (?) understood it as an attack against the character of flink and OOTS Xyrkon, and reacted against, using the different D&D characterisation. Hence disagreement because we have a different subjet in a different context, with a different point of view (illustrative vs rp fluff). Of course, it will be confusing.

Nona Reverse - 2016/2/13
So, Tiri had an eloquent description of a D&D lich, and W. some thoughtful poetry to outline what feelings may have inspired tales of undeath in Russian folklore, essentially taking a snapshot of some medieval storytelling mind's qualia. That was the source of the confusion. Right? How is it that I'm now even more confused?

W. - 2016/2/13
Well the reason is the same as for Chtulthu from Lovecraft : stories often need something unoknown, horrible, mysterious. That was the undead.
But in a story aimed at teaching value or simply evoque the correct set of sentiment, feeling pity or jealousy for the monster wont do. The need to make the undead as much of a monster as they were has in fact little to do with religion, but much more with culture.
I wasnt speaking of D&D lich but of Russian folklore, as an allegory about this comic. And the moral of most of these story is that these monster couldnt die not because of their power, but from the fact that were not truly alive anymore.

That was shown with more or less subtility by the different writers, through detail at the beginning of the tales and plainly at the end.

Detail including the history of each particular monster, showing what (emotion, value) was lost and could never be regained because recovering from trauma and "bad" belief was seen as only belonging to living , to being with a soul.
Another was the physical deformation. Instead of a skeleton, a lich was a body slowly deformed by its lack of the essential organ, which were hidden away, and by the inhuman strengh of the ex warlock.
another was out of time, alien and exaotique behaviours, almost always destructive.
A lich can act and mimic life, it can aggregate knowledge but not assimilate it in its personality.

D&D lich are different, so are D&D demon, daemon and devil from folklore ones,

Tiri - 2016/2/13
Ok, firstly, in reply to W's earlier comment: I did say they could change their habits and manners, W, at least in D&D, and since we were discussing these monsters in the context of D&D, I think that is relevant.
Maybe with a bit more effort than a living person, but that's just because being an immortal and relatively powerful (compared to some commoner) creature gives less
incentive for change than being a squishy, short-lived mortal. Also, undead were not 'invented'. They grew out of folk tales people told to scare, entertain, and give ignorant
children allegories for the dangers of the world. Various religions condemned similar concepts as being blasphemous since the idea of not needing religion to acheive
immortality is obviously harmful to organized religion. The whole 'free will' and 'ability to change' issues arose in modern times, where, stripped of the superstitions of
their elders, people began to see such mythical creatures as intriguing and needing more explanation behind them than before. Hence, the different interpretations of whether
or not various undead creatures were capable of change (along with many other things). Anyway, as I said, even if what you said was correct, Middle Ages Europe is hardly
the only culture with ghosts and vampires. Liches as we know them were invented by D&D, where they can clearly change and have free will, so using them as an example is
invalid. Also, you say that Dracula could evolve to adapt to society, but could not change his manner and habits. I would argue that changing yourself to fit society involves
just that-changing your manner and habits to conform with the expectations of those around you.

And now to address what W just said: Where are you getting this idea that 'a lich....won't change (for example) its outlook on life, its position on politics'. Why not? There is no basis for this conclusion. Until D&D came around, there wasn't even a consistent definition of 'lich'. Also, the thing about the people needing who came up with undead needing the public to be horrified and reject them? Complete crap. What point is there in rejecting a wholly fictional entity or group? These people were just trying to explain the world around them or simply entertain their friends. Finally, what 'original lore' are you talking about? As I have said many times, the undead you cite as examples have many different variants of themselves from numerous cultures and civilisations throughout history. There is no one original source these creatures are based on.

W. - 2016/2/12
not exactly. I was using the poetic meaning of growing.
A lich can learn fact, knowledge, but won't change (for example) its outlook on life, its position on politics ...
And will inevitably end up as a fish outside water, powerfull but alien to the modern (compared to him ) time

A living can change, and in this change, at term, will loose his original self (reincarnation, or different attitude/ idea in life), or attain stability (heaven/hell afterlife or everlasting habit)

The people who first develloped stories about undead wanted to horrify their public and used this as an aspect of difference to cause the needed reject reaction.

Flinx may take the same choice every day, but in fact he is unable to consistenly take another way. Unlike when he was alive and could have been persud=aded to become truly evil, a redemption of some sort.

Of course this whole is an aspect of original lore, and no completely true in D&D. And a metaphore of this comic. We may argue and change people mind, but all the content (superficial knowledge) wont continue the story and change the core of the discussion, because their starting point will still be this last comic.

Nona Reverse - 2016/2/11
Normally I worry about double-posting, but at this point I feel it's like cutting in an empty line.

I think maybe there was a miscommunication, about using either the poetic or literal meaning of 'grow'? On the one hand, W. acknowledged liches could learn. The inability to develop new skills or accept new ideas basically ruins free will. Because then you can't choose to accept new ideas or develop new skills. A lich is a once-alive power-hungry mage who now never needs to stop learning, so in that sense they can 'improve'. They get old and set in their ways, but so do living creatures. Finx will never sway from the path of cartoonish evil, but he technically renews that choice every day. All of these facts seem to allow change. On the other hand, I can't imagine a skeleton growing extra chin hair. Perhaps that is what W. meant?

Nona Reverse - 2016/2/11
I think maybe there was a miscommunication, about using either the poetic or literal meaning of 'grow'? On the one hand, W. acknowledged liches could learn. The inability to develop new skills or accept new ideas basically ruins free will. Because then you can%u2019t choose to accept new ideas or develop new skills. A lich is a once-alive power-hungry mage who now never needs to stop learning, so in that sense they can %u2018improve%u2019. They get old and set in their ways, but so do living creatures. Finx will never sway from the path of cartoonish evil, but he technically renews that choice every day. All of these facts seem to allow change. On the other hand, I can%u2019t imagine a skeleton growing extra chin hair. Perhaps that is what W. meant?

W. - 2016/2/11
I did not say they have no free will, but that they are unable to grow.
The undead were invened as something unatural, to fear. A moquerie of life tempting but whose whotook this path stoped living. The conter of this period wanted the public to understand that this was never a desirable thing, that the immortality was false, a prison.
It is the case in middle age stories. It is also the case in dracula : the eponyme can and do evolve to adapt to society, but his habit and manner dont change, he learn knowlegde but only that.

In conclusion : in original stories, ghost lich, vampire had free will, but no real ability to chane themselves.

As for modern "vampire" : every body know they are in fact redcap : blood needing fairfolk

Tiri - 2016/2/11
Correction: 'liches have been show to have free will'. 'show' should be changed to 'shown'.

Tiri - 2016/2/11
Ok, I feel the need to continue my argument with W. Firstly, many cultures had their own versions of ghosts and vampires, many of which were not explicitly incapable of change. So your points for those aren't really valid. Secondly, 'lich' was in fact a blanket term for many types of undead and was only given a definition by D&D, where many liches have been show to have free will and the ability to change (albeit tending towards evil). Thirdly, since the other examples are mindless (or mindless in the source material), they can't be used to aid this argument, one way or the other. Finally, although D&D may draw on many types of folklore, it is a separate entity from them. D&D has its own, unique versions of undead and many other monsters, and one thing that is made clear in D&D is that all (non-mindless) creatures have to freedom to choose what paths they take or whether or not to change. Even Always [insert alignment here] creatures have a choice.

Nona Reverse - 2016/2/9
anti-heroes: (the comments section) Updates Sporadically.

I'm glad Crazed was so nice, but I worry. A comments section is a place of wit, creativity, veiled slurs and meme references, like the flowing lifeblood of any online masterpiece.

Talkamancer - 2016/2/9

Gerald - 2016/1/25
Thank you Crazed.

W. - 2016/1/25
that is the point : immortal undeads are unchanging, for the better and for the worst. Poetically, Vampires represent the live for instant gratification and debaucherie, denying the existance of a different future -> unchanging and not learning.
Lich are the rejection of the limit of life, of God (the concept was first written about in christian Russia) and of death. It consist in a spellcaster locking his vital organ (originally) |energy in a jar to prevent their changes. Those are also metaphors of emotions and knowledge.
Ghost are explicitly a memory acting on someone last emotion.
Awakened zombis and skeleton don't really count, being new creature.
Ghouls in folklore weren't originally intelligent.
Did i forget a kind of intelligent undead ?
That explanation also give an argument on the always evil aspect in D&D, add to the horror level that should be present in encounter with unlife.

Tiri - 2016/1/24
I have to say, I don't really like that definition of undeath. Any sentient creature can change. Or 'grow', whatever you want to call it. A lich is no different. Also, maybe someone will continue this comic someday. Maybe.

W. - 2016/1/22
A lich can learn but not grow, undeath is fixed. unchanging. In some way, an undead is a memory of its creation, cycling its original emotion forever.
A comic stopped whose coment persist is similar : changes, addition but no truly new things, all is grey and secondary to the original purpose, but it will never reach its natural end

Nona Reverse - 2016/1/21
A lich can come up with new dialogue.

W. - 2016/1/21
as long as new people can discover it, read it and be disapointed it ended, the comic will still live.
Like a lich: unchanging, not truly dead, not truly alive maintened by external support.
Sometimes, that is enough

Subzero008 - 2016/1/20
Holy shit. Finally, an official word from someone?

Even if the domain lasts, will the comic continue? Why has there been complete silence from the writers for over half an year?

Subzero008 - 2016/1/20
Holy shit. Finally, an official word from someone?

Even if the domain lasts, will the comic continue? Why has there been complete silence from the writers for over half an year?

Crazed - 2016/1/19
Hey guys. I don't have any comic-related updates since I don't make the comics, but don't worry, I have no intention of ever letting the domain expire, so the comic should never just disappear (unless I die or am suddenly struck with intense poverty...).

Nona Reverse - 2016/1/7
What I always thought gave this comic a leg up on OotS was that it did use fewer gaming references, but then integrated them all to the story. Even if it was a small thing, like Kaal being unable to bypass a physical barrier much thicker than his torso, it always made the storyline immersive for me. Instead of a parody, where story and characterization advance between a thousand-million one-off jokes, anti-heroes had a story set in a fantasy world where the magic just happens to depend on gaming conventions.

. . .
Why am I ranting so much? Are we in Purgatory? Is this like Angel Beats, but with an afterlife reserved for D&D comic nerds?

banjo - 2016/1/7
Yeah okay, but it did have some. Not very good ones either tho. (really was just that neat-ish story)

Tiri - 2016/1/7
Honestly, I don't think this comic had many of those. It was very story-oriented from the start.

banjo - 2016/1/5
Hehe, a gaming a joke. remember when this comic had those?

W. - 2016/1/5
happy new year.
The comment are as the shadow, not always noticed, not always visible, but a trace and space marking the existence of what is, filtered throught the light of our perception.

Rarely does the shade linger long without source, and then it will often induce its d4 str or vig suffering on the living .

laurence - 2016/1/1
well, i just finished reading this and i'm glad the.. comments are alive?? Sad i feel so lost

banjo - 2016/1/1
And a happy new year.

banjo - 2015/12/30
Who is lemmy again?

Motorhead - 2015/12/29
Lemmy's Dead Sigh

Tiri - 2015/12/25
You too. Nona, when I said 'Earth' I meant whatever world the characters in the comic live on. Although technically if that had happened to our Earth, any evidence of the comic ever having existed, along with the mental concept of the story in our minds (barring the possibility of life after death) would be completely obliterated. So Lana, Aldran and the others would be as good as never having existed in the first place.

banjo - 2015/12/24
Happy holidays everybody.

banjo - 2015/12/18
well however they are we do know that it does not matter because we are stating with the crappy hero characters anyway.

Nona Reverse - 2015/12/17
So we all died in Earth's devastation. How does this affect the characters on their fantasy D&D world-setting? I couldn't care less what happens to Earth, just if Lana and Aldran and Eldhin are okay.

Tiri - 2015/12/15
How about this: A giant meteor had actually been on collision course to Earth the whole time and it just hit the planet. The shockwave was powerful enough to wipe out all life bigger than an ant. The end.

banjo - 2015/12/14
Why don't we come up with our own ending, with the way the comic was going it would probably end up better than it would've too.

Subzero008 - 2015/12/14
It really is sad. I wish they'd at least tell us its dead, or at least give something. Not nothing.

At this point, I think that even if they do come back, a lot of people would still just leave.

Tiri - 2015/12/9
Well, there's still about a year left for the webpage, but I seriously doubt any updates will appear.

Ramesse - 2015/12/8
So... Comics is definitely dead? I come here every week and I still hope, but... is this really end?

JHSII - 2015/11/25
Pft, what do you think I am? some kind of joke? you guys are mean.

Tiri - 2015/11/24
Please, no.

Anon - 2015/11/24
"maybe a benevolent spirit who rewards loyalty should reply to me."

JHSII, there's your cue!

Nona Reverse - 2015/11/23
This used to be far-and-away my favorite webcomic, my favorite comic strip, and one of my favorite fantasy stories in general, for the humor, good plotting and characterization. I liked it less after antiheroes changed hands, but even most of a year without updates or acknowledgment from the authors, who I hope are physically okay, and I still return to comment. If the authors are indisposed, maybe a benevolent spirit who rewards loyalty should reply to me.

Talkamancer - 2015/11/20
I guess 7 months is a little more than sporadic. Even Helpdesk would have had an update by now. Did anyone have any joy getting the original script idea from Jordan ?

banjo - 2015/10/29
shut up bro.

JHSII - 2015/10/25
The people who hated the comic and wanted it to die got what they wanted.
Karma is due.

Gerald - 2015/10/21
Not with a bang but a whimper...

Tiri - 2015/10/10
The reason should be obvious.

Nona Reverse - 2015/10/9
On the bright side, this has more comments than any single strip I've seen for a long while. So, that's nice.

banjo - 2015/10/9

Andy - 2015/10/8
说道:Great post, I conceive westibe owners should larn a lot from this web site its rattling user genial . My father always told me, Find a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life.' by Jim Fox.

Tiri - 2015/9/29
crazed@antiheroescomic.com. It's actually under the 'Contact' section.

banjo - 2015/9/28
post it here, let us do it.

Tiri - 2015/9/28
I have the webmaster's email. That might lead somewhere. I'm too busy to do much now, though.

banjo - 2015/9/27
Yes someone should contact them but how would they do that?

Zweisteine - 2015/9/27
Oh, we could also ask them to just try to continue the comic without any careful flow, possibly with large narrations attached.

i.e. write down what happens rather than showing it, except for cool important parts.

Zweisteine - 2015/9/27
I say we regather on GiantITP if the site breaks. Wink

I think we should contact the current team before the original author, because they probably have a more fleshed-out idea of where the plot was going.

Tiri - 2015/9/25
Erm... No need to get that extreme. What would really help would be someone contacting Zara and asking for the plot outline he gave to the current team. Then it can be released to the general public or they can continue it, if they like. Kinda leaning towards the first option in case the 'continuation' turns into crap like this comic. Actually, I think I'll do that when I have some time.

sciury - 2015/9/25
until someone else buy/take the idea and the website and continue it, earning the praise, hate, indiference outrage of people as they change the substance and the very nature of this story toward a steam punk contemplative fiction aiming for the poetry of political satire through realism and lich pin-up

Tiri - 2015/9/24
Although if the write or artist really are dead or incapacitated, we may not have much more than another year of no comic.

Muyten - 2015/9/24
Yeah also guessing it is auto-renew although someone still needs to pay for it. (or has already prepaid)

Tiri - 2015/9/23
Well, it looks like that forum won't be seeing much use. At least there's always a backup should this site actually go down.

banjo - 2015/9/23
Yeah, i'm magic and stuff.

Mark - 2015/9/23
All praise Banjo for this miracle!

The Ancient One - 2015/9/23
You people DO realize there is something called auto-renew? Guessing that was the case. Too bad it doesn't apply to the comic itself... Wink

Tiri - 2015/9/23
It's a miracle!

Muyten - 2015/9/23
Looks like the URL was renewed for another year. Perhaps that means kumquats prayers will be heard or perhaps it just means someone wants the site to stay up. At the very least there must be someone out there paying the bills.

kumquat - 2015/9/22
Oh say can you see
By the northern sun's light
What so proudly we veiled
Till the light did stop gleaming

Whose red eyes and fanged smile
Through the perilous night
For Arderas we watched
For an update we're dreaming

And the Banjo's warped stare
The coins flying through air
Gave proof through the night
That the strip was still there

O say are the bold Anti-
Heroes so brave
May this great comic strip
Please return from the grave

Subzero008 - 2015/9/22
Hmm, this is still here. But it's the 22'd.

Tiri - 2015/9/21
Also, sign up for the forum. It would be horrible losing contact with all you wonderful people. Well, not really, but I don't want to leave that poor forum sitting there with only two members.

Tiri - 2015/9/21
Yeah, you are. It's going to be gone in a matter of hours.

Destrustor - 2015/9/21
I had a fun time with this comic.
Hopefully I'll check back tomorrow to see a fresh new page, and things being better.

Maybe I'm being optimistic.


Gerald - 2015/9/21

banjo - 2015/9/20
hey goodbye everybody, see y'all at the forum

Tiri - 2015/9/20
Also, I followed banjo's suggestion and created a forum if anyone wants to continue chatting. Here: http://antiheroes.forumshome.com/

Tiri - 2015/9/18
Two more days...

banjo - 2015/9/17
yeah they probably dead

W. - 2015/9/17
if you liked "from the darkness pov" and personality, i would advise you to see Erfworld (if you didnt already) http://www.erfworld.com/
which was once hosted along OotS

Tiri - 2015/9/17
I wonder what happened to the current author and illustrator. Maybe they were in a car crash together?

Subzero008 - 2015/9/16
The parts of this comic I liked:

The characters. The two demigods have interesting opposed personalities. I find it interesting that the Knight Templar type was more down-to-earth than the joke cracking cryptic. Even the bard guy was refreshingly serious at times, and not-so-serious the next.

Premise: It's a bit cliche? Not sure what to call it, but I liked the whole "seeing it from the PoV of the forces of darkness" part. Plus, it was kind of interesting having a relatively powerless protagonist compared to other characters - unlike OotS, where the characters are actually pretty high-level compared to everyone else.

Setting: The idea of a background, past war and living in its aftermath seemed pretty cool.

What I disliked:

Weird characters. Like that weird alternate dimension that seemed to be there for no reason, or the pointless goblin/noobs arc.

banjo - 2015/9/16
What the story of the comic or the story of the comments?

Also what are y'all going to do after this, cause i think we should continue with have neato conversations with you cause y'all seem cool. if you any sugestions for like a chat room or something that people who have been posting comments and stuff could come and continue chatting please post that

sciury - 2015/9/16
thanks a lot for archiving.
I believe the forgetting of comment isnt a big loss

Maybe one day someone will take the story, reinterpret it and devellop it further?

Or not

Tiri - 2015/9/16
It's far too late for that.

banjo - 2015/9/15
I don't mean to be a JHSII (or is it JSHII?) but ****ing stop, let the comic die without idiotic trolling.


Banjo - 2015/9/15
@Shitty impersonator

Please stop bro, it has stopped being funny so you can just stahp.

suB0doublezeroeight - 2015/9/15
19u19382398 HOWURS @@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Subzero008 - 2015/9/15

Zweisteine - 2015/9/15
I would try to use javascript to archive the comments, but I fear neither my web-manipulating skills nor my computer are up to the task...

Zweisteine - 2015/9/15
Well, in that case, I don't need to go ahead with my massive archiving procedure, which involved automatically opening 20 or so pages to the archive at a time.

Maybe we should try to archive all the non-main-comic pages.

I, unfortunately, do not have time to do it.


mortAlkumbum700 - 2015/9/15
12i4o23o42904 hoUr till i eat pooooooP.

tiriririririririririririri - 2015/9/14

Tiri - 2015/9/14
It also doesn't save our comments, as I've just found out. So I'm just going to copy the comments for this last page on the 20th and paste them somewhere. Can't do all the others, though. It would take superhuman patience for that.

Tiri - 2015/9/14
It's too bad the cast page doesn't work in the archive, though.

Subzero008 - 2015/9/14
Expires on the 21st.


tiriririririririririririri - 2015/9/12

Tiri - 2015/9/12
I archived it about a week ago. Or more, my memory isn't that good. I should do it again to save all these wonderful comments.

Sicuey - 2015/9/12

Sciury - 2015/9/12
How much times before the domain expire ?
someone spoke about saving it on web archive, was it done? (if yes, thanks. could you tell us more about this)
blind praise , trolling, concern, feeding ... doesnt matter if they arent read. (nor red, they would at least go faster)

wuhevear - 2015/9/11
BLUB BA GER BA GER, YOu aer the trolll yew mortalkobmat007

Subzero008 - 2015/9/11
Whatever is trolling - intentionally aggravating you to get a reaction. Just ignore the worthless pile of garbage and move on.

banjo - 2015/9/11
man, this is like soap opera. so entertaining.

Tiri - 2015/9/10
Enough with the arguing. Nobody seems to be changing or acknowledging others' actual viewpoints and there's really no point discussing the comic after it's died a horrible, farcical death.

Destrustor - 2015/9/10
My problem is that you refuse to believe what I say, and keep accusing me of intentions I never had.
I didn't win. No one wins here. Why is it so hard to believe I never wanted this comic to die?

Have I ever been anything but cordial with you?

whatever - 2015/9/10
I don't see what your problem is, Destrustor, you won. The comic that you hate so much has been killed off. Congratulations.

banjo - 2015/9/10
Yeah, whoever is doing the impersonating stuff, please stahp you bum

Destrustor - 2015/9/10
Yeah, the impersonator thing isn't really all that funny, to be honest.

wahtevah - 2015/9/10
Der der der you killde theis comic you dumby

Destrustor - 2015/9/10
I did none of that.
And I stand by what I said: I'd still love for this comic to continue.

What is more likely to kill a comic; people openly worrying about its fate, or the same people sitting idly by in silence while it dies, showing the creators nothing but a wall of uncaring silence? If I was struggling with a comic, and saw nothing but concern from the readers, I would be much more spurred to action than if I saw a total absence of reaction. The silence would only show me exactly how much no one cares.

But if you want to continue blaming everyone but the few people who had any power over this comic, it's your choice.
I believe the comic would be dead with or without us. Artistic burnout happens and, as someone to whom it happened, I can tell you from experience that the blind praise and "reassuring" encouragements do nothing to help. They only add more guilt on the pile you already feel about letting those people down.

So yeah. "whatever" indeed. Whatever helps you sleep at night, whatever light you choose to look at this under.

I still wish this comic thrived, and I wish you a good life. Hopefully we'll get to speak again in this comment section, on a new page.

whatever - 2015/9/10
No, you stuck around until you got exactly what you wanted - the comic is dead. If you hadn't wanted that, you wouldn't have filled the comments section with insults, personal attacks, lies, and impersonation.
And if you still don't know the difference between caring about the comic and actively trying to kill it, then the problem is entirely yours.

Destrustor - 2015/9/10
And you, if it's really JSHII who posted as "whatever", still don't understand that that wasn't what we wanted.
We complained because we wanted to see the comic continue. We stuck around because we did still enjoy the comic.

Do you really think that had no one said a single word about this issue, had we all just silently watched things crawl to a stop, that the authors would have been more productive? Do you really believe that silent complacency would have shown them how much we cared? We complained because they stopped, not the other way around.

Saying nothing at all; THAT would have been wishing the death of this comic.

That the authors haven't even bothered to try to placate us with the semblance of false promises tells me that they gave up long before we did.

The comic died despite us, and we're all saddened by it.
Please don't pretend you were the only one who cared.

whatever - 2015/9/10
I haven't posted here since the impostor showed up - and you trolls won.
You got what you wanted - the comic is now dead.
The authors haven't shown up, nor have they answered any of my messages.
Thanks for killing what was a good comic.

Tiri - 2015/9/10
Really, enough with the word 'goat'. It's beginning to set me on edge.

banjo - 2015/9/9
Yeah, there are certain goatly thing that have changed about him.

Sciury - 2015/9/9
It looks like he is using two stramen to boost another account ?

one thing, though, his arguments changed a lot since the beginning, so it probably are two impersonators, the real one having left long ago.

Tiri - 2015/9/9

banjo - 2015/9/9
perhaps it is not the same person every time?

Tiri - 2015/9/8
What I meant was that maybe JSHII might be using a strawman. Or it could just be an impersonator. It's impossible to tell for sure.

JSHII - 2015/9/8
Ughe, you bog swargling goat hater can all just LEAVE, youu all hate this comic so much so why don't you jsut locck yourselfeves with goatsd to make urselvfs saine so thadt you liek thisd comi agian. Also stop impursoon atinging me "JHSII"

Banjo - 2015/9/8
Uh tiri, JSHII and JHSII seem to be different people right? One is the impersonator and one the real deal. I have no idea which is which because honestly it is hard to tell.

JSHII - 2015/9/8
hAY DOnt insult thisc omic, it is really really good. Also it is stoopid dat sum1 is inpursonatining me

Tiri - 2015/9/8
Ok, now it looks like JSHII is just pretending to be someone else pretending to be him. Anyway, JSHII, nobody likes the comic as it is. It is has degenerated into a mindless mess that makes little sense.

JSHII - 2015/9/7
DERP DERP DERP, and they are stewpiid and meeeen!.!!>K!?!!

JHSII - 2015/9/7
What a surprise to see Prowl and W just trolling again. No one's making you read these so if you don't like what I'm saying, then just get out of here. And then the people who actually like this comic can have a good conversation for once.

banjo - 2015/9/7
I wonder who will get the last comment?

W. - 2015/9/7
It doesn't sound stupid.
I too often miss comment sections : they are either instructives or entertaining.
As for JHSII, i am reassured to see he does that on purpose.
I know a few people flaming for fun on internet and being charming outside, and another few being (stupidly ? unhealthily at least) stubborn and unhappy in both. Since he is the first, no harm done.

Tiri - 2015/9/7
It sounds stupid, but the comments section is the thing I'm going to miss most when this page goes down.

banjo - 2015/9/6
Prowl, although JHSII is a big darn butthole you should not wish harm upon him. 'Tis not right.

Prowl - 2015/9/5
And another month later, still no strip.

And just as predicted, the number of people JHSII has insulted continues to mount.

I hope he behaves that way towards people in person, as well. Because eventually he's going to run into someone who will give him the royal ass-kicking and curb-stomping that he deserves.

Banjo - 2015/9/5
The 21st shall be the day of which the comic shall finally be gone

Gerald - 2015/9/4
So what day does this comic die? Any chance of us hearing anything else from the creators, even a plot summary?

banjo - 2015/8/31
Nah bro, it ain't me. Also yeah, they kinda lost me after the hole werewolf stuff. Also on the mater of the two JHSII/JSHIIs. JSHII seems to be the faker. Or maybe JHSII has realized his crap and became overly parodish.

Tiri - 2015/8/31
Ok, I'm pretty sure there are 2 JSHIIs here, because only one has an email. And to be honest it looks like banjo is the one writing the second JSHII's posts. In any case though, the comic is probably well and truly dead by now, so there's no point arguing about it. To be honest, it did devolve into utter crap towards the end.

banjo - 2015/8/31
hey, that is why i called him a butthole.

JSHII - 2015/8/31
Thanks for trolling in W. Also proof read before you post. Half of that was nonsensical and the other half was just flat out wrong, so i say this to you. With the power and truth of the great goat oracle I say to you, if you actually liked this comic like the anti goat troll you are then you could stop reading and coming back.

W. - 2015/8/31
JHSII I am writting this in the terriying but unlikely event you really believe what you are saying
as of now, you only said people "prove your point" without telling how you would expect otherwise. People who where agreeing with you as the 'reasonable one' a hundred strips ago now say that you are too agressive, borned and dissmissive. Even Anon, a card carying one, appears more reasonable, real.

I return your argument, if you really liked this webcomic, please cease to derail like that the comments, and dont accuse me of lying, like you do everyone, the ad hominem is tiring

if you were hypocritical and voluntarily flaming, then continue, you have been really successful thus far.

JHSII - 2015/8/30
you just blew my mind

Destrustor - 2015/8/30
But what about Eggoats? Half-egg, half-goat creatures of perfection?

JHSII - 2015/8/30
Like serious do people even think?!? Ugh. They just prove my point over and over again. At this point I honestly think that troll just means anti goat because they act exactly unlike how goats act with their majestic glory.

JHSII - 2015/8/30
Just more pointless trolling for no reason. People just making trouble and lying because they can't back up their own arguments. Pathetic.

JHSII - 2015/8/30
Hey dis comic is great! (although not as good as goats) (wait! this comic was written by as goat!)

Anon - 2015/8/30
This is f*cking amazing. You KNOW the comic is crap when the comments are funnier than a hundred pages of "content."

JHSII - 2015/8/29
Updates on what? Updates on goats?

Destrustor - 2015/8/29
And suddenly this comic's comment section turned into the greatest thing ever.
I eagerly await more updates.

JHSII - 2015/8/29

Zweisteine - 2015/8/29
Guys. Instead of your petty arguing, spend your time making sure the entire comic is safely archived.

JHSII - 2015/8/28
And my point is that is think goats are awesome. (sorry that took posts everybody)

JHSII - 2015/8/28
The impostor continues. Thanks for proving my point.

JHSII - 2015/8/28
Sometimes I am just astounded at how majestic and beautiful goats are. they are simplely amaizng.

That is why my name stands for Jgoats Hgoats Sgoats Igoats Igoats

JHSII - 2015/8/28
Like if they liked this comic as much as i like goats they would realize the error of their ways

JHSII - 2015/8/28
Banjo and the impersonator, are they really the same person?

If they really liked the comic, they wouldn't be trolling.

JHSII - 2015/8/28
Yep, i am finally am accepting of how great goats. (just not in a creepy way) They are great.

banjo - 2015/8/28
Looks like someone likes goats.

JHSII - 2015/8/28
I just love goats
they are great

JHSII - 2015/8/28
More from the impersonator. Expected.

JHSII - 2015/8/28
On another note, i would like to say that goats are amazing creatures that should be treated more fairly.

JHSII - 2015/8/28
The trolling continues. One of Banjo's friends is impersonating me.
It's not funny, nor has it ever been. But it is expected.

Banjo - 2015/8/28
Okay, "JSHII" isn't me but i find it very funny. Good work.

JHSII - 2015/8/28
In response to this this I declare myself an asshole.

JHSII - 2015/8/28
Let me guess, is that Banjo who is now posting on something close to my name so it will be mistaken for my by people who don't look too closely?

And Banjo continues trolling. I guess that peace offering was just another of his lies. It does show exactly what kind of person he is.

JSHII - 2015/8/28
Oh i was wrong. i admidt. that i don't listen to people and am dumb and this comic will likely never update againn der der duuh.

banjo - 2015/8/28
You don't listen.

You don't listen.

You don't listen.

I give up. Just keep this in mind in case you think you won because I don't respond any more.

Because you don't get to win. You don't get to win because you don't listen you troll-baiting peace of shit.

banjo - 2015/8/28

JHSII - 2015/8/28
Can I stop starting stuff? I didn't start anything to begin with.

I still like the comic, and I am awaiting the next one. I do wonder how much progress they've made.

banjo - 2015/8/28
What you say also applies to you. Kay? No can we move on. Can you stop starting shit? Can your next post be all positive. Please. Let this comic die in a happy place. Not a place that is just a big ol' pile of arguments.

Okay? Hmph I'll let you start. If you start by saying something nice, something pleasant, I will respond with something nice and then you will respond with something and so on until the end (of this comic).

Please take up my request, see some good in these posts and post some good in your own.

JHSII - 2015/8/28
If you loved the comic you wouldn't be here trolling it. You wouldn't be acting like a jerk just to amuse yourself. But that's what you've been doing.

If you see hate in ANY of my posts, then it's because you've chosen to see what you've wanted to see regardless of what's actually there. If there's been any anger, then it's been a direct reaction to the trolling of you and your friends.
You say you have more important things to do. I doubt it - or else you would have either not done it at all, or you would have stopped long ago.

banjo - 2015/8/27
Also there may be typos and bad grammar in that but honestly i don't care enouhg to proofread anymore so just deal with it

banjo - 2015/8/27
Uhg, have you even read what I said? I ****ing love(d) this comic, okay? The closest thing I said to hate on the comic itself is saying that the comic is dead (which at this point is less criticism and more just stating fact)

Okay? Also you don't seem to understand that passive aggression while not being complete hate like yelling "Ay, **** you" to someone is still that, AGGRESSION. So you say you don't hate. Ha. Anyway, please don't say more words 'cause honestly this is not important and I am guessing that we both have more important stuff to do. Well, I do.

JHSII - 2015/8/27
I haven't hated on anyone. All I have done is to ask; Why do people who hate this comic continue to return to a comic they hate?

I'm not the one throwing out insults and cloaked vulgarity either - that's YOUR problem. At least you admit that the only reason you're still here is because you're trolling.

banjo - 2015/8/27

You claim intelligence when you simply have two... no actually one mode: Hate on anyone who says anything negative ever.

Under most circumstances I am not what could be considered a troll. Here I am merely because ****ing with you is fun. really really fun. well was fun. Now it just feels as though I have to do it because like I made some sort of commitment.

I want to have an intelligent conversation with you because I don't want to hear what you say because you have nothing to say. So in short, go do something mildly unpleasant (I don't care what so I'll let you decide) you stupid little imp.

JHSII - 2015/8/27
Thanks for trolling in, banjo. When you want to have an intelligent, mature conversation, I will still be here.

banjo - 2015/8/27
Point? Point? What ****ing point have been making? I don't ****ing see any? Also since you are clearly the great ****ing pillar of maturity you are able to say such things. Also seriously what good do you do by saying more shit? Honestly you don't. You won't be able to change anyones minds and... ...just ****. ugh.

JHSII - 2015/8/27
Telling me to "stfu" is the least mature thing you've posted lately. It does go to prove my point though.

banjo - 2015/8/27

Sorry, that was inappropriate but I felt as though it needed to be said. Anyway, those are some good comics anon (though I am not very far on any of them) thank you for recommending those comics, this is the third time I am saying this but it still stands true, read Hero oh Hero. it is good. Also stfu JHSII.

JHSII - 2015/8/27
This comic just happens to be on the list of webpages I check at least once a day. Just like I check The Giant.
I have to ask, is there no better use of your friends time than to troll a comic that they hate so much? Talk about wasting time!!

Anon - 2015/8/27
I keep forgetting about this comic and then showing up about once a month at most. And yet I always see a comment from JHSII right near the top, posted at most a day or two ago. Are you actually stalking the comment thread? Do you check back every day? Is there literally no better use of your time?

I might as well plug some other webcomics, better than this one in all ways. For a non-D&D-but-still-fantasy feel I highly recommend Unsounded, it's a masterfully crafted work with a rich world and dynamic characters. For laughs, Paranatural is very good, about ghosts and spirit interactions and things, though every now and again he misses an update and that's annoying (though hey, if you're on this site you wouldn't even notice it.) Cucumber Quest is also very good, charming and cute but with complex characters. Those three are my favorite comics to follow these days.

banjo - 2015/8/26
Yeah, that would be nice

Subzero008 - 2015/8/26
I just wish this comic could die with some dignity, not some stupid, half-baked, filler strip.

banjo - 2015/8/25
(I'm not sure this applies to all of you but this is my reason)

The reason I still come here is the comments section. Also the comic is still enjoyable despite its death.

JHSII - 2015/8/25
If you think it's practically dead, then why do you keep coming here?

Tiri - 2015/8/25
Well, it used to be great. But since it's practically dead, no point arguing about it.

Zweisteine - 2015/8/24
Not even capitalizing any more? What have these times come to...

But let's not let this great comic's discussion end with arguments.

banjo - 2015/8/21
seriously. *deeply sighs*

Dick F U C Kmcgee - 2015/8/21

banjo - 2015/8/21

Dick****mcgee - 2015/8/21
**** SHIT ASSHOLE **** **** ****. **** AlL YoU BitcheS.

Banjo - 2015/8/21

Banjo ('cause honestly I feel as though I can shorten it at thing point) - 2015/8/21


Dick****mcgee - 2015/8/21

Banjo the mage - 2015/8/21
Man oh man, I cannot believe that I seriously just did that. wow. I fed you. Sorry. Also bro, I've been plenty positive.

(Keep reading.)

And yes, those last three were meant to offend you, buuuuut the comment that I was referring to was not intended to offend.

(Keep reading)

Anyway imma gonna be more positive because admittedly you have a good point 'cause all this negativity suck balls.

(Keep reading)

This comic is great, it sucks that it has stopped updating.

(Keep reading)

What was your personal favourite moment from this comic that you so blindly defend JHSII? oh sh*t, imma being rude again. Sorry about that. hey bro, do mind if i recommend a comic in a gesture of positively, look up a comic called "Hero Oh Hero". its good and I think you would like it. (it updates frequently)

(Honestly you can skip this next part.)

Kay cool, ttfn and have a lovely day.

JHSII - 2015/8/21
Thanks for proving my point. You aren't here to enjoy the comic, or to engage in any kind of positive discussion, just to throw out needless insults and unfair criticisms.

And no, you do mean to offend me, otherwise you wouldn't have made such an effort to do so.

Banjo the mage - 2015/8/20
(see I was able to put put thought into not just one comment but two were as you cannot even put half a thought into one, so I say good day to you, I SAY GOOD DAY SIR!)

Banjo the mage - 2015/8/20
Also, JSHII unlike you I put a considerable amount of thought into my comments before posting. (just in case you couldn't tell THAT was trolling. saying you that you are annoying is not.) Kay? Cool? Good, now I would prefer if you don't respond to this because it'll likely be you saying "ooh, don't troll, eeeeh" and at this point your idiocy is already been recorded for all to see and honestly everything you say is digging your hole deeper. Banjo out *drops mic*

(also again THAT was trolling, use it for reference in future instances of stuff you might think might be trolling)

Banjo the mage - 2015/8/20
But I find you annoying. (actually I think that most people here find you annoying with your blind praise of everything that the writers/artists do and how you merely show up to be needlessly passive aggressive and pointing and saying "TROOOOLL"(read that in a stereotypical butt-hurt nerd voice))

sorry I didn't mean to offend you. And you do have to agree that it is good that the comic is archived and stuff because this site will likely expire because of the general inactivity of the comic and the site in general.

JHSII - 2015/8/20
Thanks for trolling in, Banjo.
You might try thinking before you post something next time.

Banjo the mage - 2015/8/20
Well, at least annoying buttfaces like JHSII are gone.

MorBain - 2015/8/20
If this comic is truly gone, then it is a sad day

Banjo the mage - 2015/8/11
"ahh thank you tiri, you are truly a saint."

Tiri - 2015/8/10
I'll do it. I have too much spare time on my hands.

Zweisteine - 2015/8/7
Could you try to make sure all the non-comic pages are archived?

Take extra care at the extras page. That's where most of the non-comic stuff is.

Banjo the mage - 2015/8/6
But imma toooo lazy though. someone else do it.

Zweisteine - 2015/8/6
I nominate Subzero AND Banjo to do the binge-archiving. Tongue

More people is better.

Zweisteine - 2015/8/6
I've had a better idea. Put the entire comic through the Wayback Machine. (https://archive.org/web/)

If anyone is feeling up to binge-reading the whole comic, go do it in the web archive instead of here.

As I said, I don't have the time right now to do the archiving myself, but I have determined that comics 320 and later are probably NOT archived yet.

The site is going to expire on 21 September, if I understand the whois lookup correctly. This has to be done before then.

Banjo the mage - 2015/8/6
yes, someone really do that

zweisteine - 2015/8/6
Somebody should assemble all the images of this comic into an album on imgur or something.

I'm too busy to do it myself, or I would.

I don't want to see this disappear...

Banjo the mage - 2015/8/5
oh jeez, I just realized that I misspelled up in my name in my last comment, oops

Banjo the mage (i came upp with this name before reading Oots) - 2015/8/5
Okay, I know I am a little late to this party but whatever

I think what Subzero008 said roughly 23 days ago is a good idea, see some of you guys may have of heard of a comic called "Hero oh Hero", a comic that updates quite regularly. Why do i mention this you may ask? because this comic is a reboot of another comic called "a path to the greater good" that was plagued with the same problem of infrequent updates. The creator cancelled Aptgg because of this problem and rectified it with something that I honestly think all web comics should have, a buffer.

Anyway, in short i think that anti-HEROES should be rebooted with an update buffer. I hope my ramblings made sense.

Subzero008 - 2015/8/5
For more than an year, I've had this site bookmarked on my "daily checklist" folder.

I'm thinking of deleting that bookmark.

Tiri - 2015/7/31
What I meant was, I don't think Subzero's theory is right.

Prowl - 2015/7/31
>Check the author's comments. I don't think Dyluth quit.

That author's comment is one week short of 3 months old.

Last actual plot-relevant strip was 8 months ago.

For all practical purposes, the evidence suggests that they've quit and we are simply waiting for the prepaid time on the hosting package to expire for the site to disappear.

Tiri - 2015/7/30
Check the author's comments. I don't think Dyluth quit.

Subzero008 - 2015/7/29
Bad News: leakingpen's last recent activity was on 2014-12-28 07:36 AM on Giantitp.com. Dyluth was last seen over two years ago.

...like, what if Dyluth quit, and leakingpen has been working on everything solo?

Subzero008 - 2015/7/29
This comic is almost seven years old.

Subzero008 - 2015/7/29
I sent an email asking if they were still alive yesterday, and got no response yet.

They are so dead.

...fanfiction? This story does have great worldbuilding.

Prowl - 2015/7/29
> Be sure to check back all the time - new comics are released sporadically, but usually once a week!

(let's see if I get attacked for literally copying and pasting)

Tiri - 2015/7/28
Yeah, the way the comic is going now, the current team will be dead before we get halfway to the end.

anonymouse - 2015/7/25
I wonder if the original creator's offer to "spill the beans" is still on the table somewhere... I just wanted to know how the story goes, I wouldn't mind if it's just text. Erfworld's text-only updates turned out surprisingly (to its own creators!) popular, after all.

JHSII - 2015/7/25
Prowl is the one doing the insults - and then blaming me for his own actions. Looks like W is joining in.
I guess that's what you have to do when you can contribute nothing positive.

W. - 2015/7/25
When he does twic the same person (same pseudonyme), would it count twice?
If so 26
Else 6

Prowl - 2015/7/25
Over/under on the number of people JHSII insults before the next comic comes out: 35

JHSII - 2015/7/23
Trolling and projection from Prowl. Nothing honest or new.

Prowl - 2015/7/22
> I'm willing to contribute - because I'm not the kind of person who says they like the comic, but does nothing but call it dead.

That's true, you also work very diligently to drive away everyone else who had interest in this project.

Regardless of your willingness, I seriously doubt you have anything substantial to contribute. But feel free to tell us all what your wonderful contributions might be.

Subzero008 - 2015/7/16
The team, of course. I never said that it's a remake by someone else - just a redo.

JHSII - 2015/7/15
I'm willing to contribute - because I'm not the kind of person who says they like the comic, but does nothing but call it dead.
Saying that the people who still love the comic are "defending its death" is more a reflection on the person making that statement than it is on those of us who still love the comic.

JanessaVR - 2015/7/15
I've the sent the authors/artists a message asking them to list this comic on Patreon for monthly support. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. Will anyone else here contribute?

JanessaVR - 2015/7/15
If the updating schedule is too slow for you, offer to pay them for faster service. If it's a *free* service, well, then it will be updated when they feel like it. For the record, I'd be happy to contribute monthly for this comic on Patreon, if they set that up.

Destrustor - 2015/7/15
There is a difference between hating something and hating the current state of that thing.

How is this so hard to understand? I like the characters, I like the setting, and I like the story.
I'D LIKE TO HAVE MORE OF IT That is the problem I have here. The comic is dying, to my great regret, and the authors don't seem to care enough about it to even give us closure. That's the whole point of my entire set of gripes.
Why would I be here complaining that the comic is dying if I didn't enjoy it?

Telling the readers to abandon the comic because it's not as thriving as they'd like is as ridiculous as telling someone to cut their tree down when they complain that it isn't growing fast enough.

Complaining that there isn't enough of something is no different than asking for more of it.
Stop accusing me of hating this comic when all I want is to see it flourish.

If you love the comic so much, why are you still here defending its death?

JHSII - 2015/7/15
There should be a "like" button for comments!!

JanessaVR - 2015/7/15
@Destrustor: Are you paying for access to this site? Is anyone forcing you to visit? If you despise this webcomic so much, why are you still here?

Destrustor - 2015/7/15
" I happen to believe that raking the people who are doing the work over the coals"
"the people who are doing the work"
"doing the work"
That's exactly the problem; they aren't doing the work.
Or at least, they show absolutely no sign that they are.
What could we possibly do about that?
And why should it be our job?

JanessaVR - 2015/7/14
To the comic's artists and authors. Please don't listen to the naysayers here. I, for one, very much appreciate your continuing this comic, even on a sporadic updating schedule.

JHSII - 2015/7/14
Subzero008, I call personal attacks and insults trolling, particularly when the person posting them posts little else. Or, maybe you think personal attacks and insults are ok. I don't. I'd rather have a discussion on whatever the topic happens to be.

As for the comic, I happen to believe that raking the people who are doing the work over the coals is probably not the best way to encourage them to continue with the comic. I also have to wonder if the people complaining the loudest have ever actually done anything to help. It's easy to complain and criticize when the people doing the most complaining and being the most critical have done nothing to help.

As for a redo, who would be doing it? Do you have any suggestions?

Subzero008 - 2015/7/14
IMO, I get the feeling that JHSII is just calling everything he doesn't like "trolling." Those kind of people are gross.

In any case, criticism is not flaming. Don't treat it like flaming. There's a difference between criticism and flaming or trolling.

In my opinion, this comic needs a rehaul. I'm not sure if this was a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth or simple incompetence, but I think this comic got a drop in overall quality a while ago. Now, what updates we do get are filler, promises that they'll update with a better one next time.

I get the feeling that the team has a writing block, or they wrote themselves into a corner, or otherwise lost all motivation. A redo might reinstill that.

JHSII - 2015/7/14
Again, you should try reading what I actually post. Your question has clearly been answered.
Unless you're not interested in what's actually posted.

Destrustor - 2015/7/14
Have you ever heard of "exaggeration". maybe?
It's a fairly common way of adding emphasis to a conversation.

I'm still really curious as to what constitutes "trolling" in your eyes. Brushing my question aside didn't change that.

JHSII - 2015/7/14
I never said that everyone here was trolling. Maybe you should try reading what I actually post, Destrustor.

Destrustor - 2015/7/14
Not agreeing with someone isn't trolling.

Trying to explain to someone how a situation is less than ideal is not trolling either.

Expecting authors to deliver on their promises and provide slightly more work than a literal corpse is not trolling either, and is in no way an indication of non-adult behavior.

I would really like to have an explanation of how everyone here is "trolling", because I don't see how legitimate complaints and worries about the comic's future are a disrespectful act of provocation.

JHSII - 2015/7/14
No, Prowl, I don't have a problem with anyone except those who post nothing but insults and personal attacks - and that's YOU.
When you want to stop trolling, then the problem you have with me will end. All you have to do is to start acting like an adult.

Prowl - 2015/7/14
@Nona - I'm afraid the math has worsened since I posted that. We're down to a rate of 4 comics per year, based on the last 6 months' track record. This now puts the anticipated end date of the story close to the year 2200. Hope they have great-great-grandchildren to finish it up.

Prowl - 2015/7/14
>Lots of insults and personal attacks, Of course, blaming me for your trolling.

I seem to have a problem only with you.

You seem to have a problem with EVERY OTHER PERSON who comments here.

It doesn't take even an average IQ to do the math on this one.

Tiri - 2015/7/13
I think they should just delete all the strips from the point where the party got to the city and redo them. Preferably with less lizardfolk drug nonsense.

Nona Reverse - 2015/7/13
If Dypen, or whoever might be responsible for the expected updates of a distant future, reads this section, I would like to advise skimming around this section near the bottom and through the whole middle portion. There is some great advice buried in there, and I don't think Dypen are good enough storytellers from the evidence that they can afford to ignore it. Many voices here really want to support the comic. Here's hoping we get an update soon, since I think Prowl's math checks out! Please, know that some people do love this comic, when it's at prime quality!

JHSII - 2015/7/10
Thanks for more trolling, Prowl. Lots of insults and personal attacks, Of course, blaming me for your trolling.
You don't like the comic? No one's forcing you to be here.

Prowl - 2015/7/9
> One thing I've noted in my life is that a constant barrage of insults and attacks is unlikely to get anyone to improve whatever it is that they're doing. It's more likely to make them want to quit altogether than have to put up with more and more of it. If you want to ruin something, just give nothing more than insults and attacks. Pile it on.

You're personally far and away the most responsible for that happening to this very here comments section. The phrase "clueless f*ck" comes to mind.

>I'm here, still reading the comic.

And yet the fact that not a thing has changed in months doesn't seem to have fazed you or struck you as abnormal in any way.

> I still like it, and I'll continue to be here until they decide that they don't want to do it anymore.

Two comics in the last six months might just be a clue that they decided just that - long before you started arguing with anyone on this site.

JHSII - 2015/7/7
And the other comic that I used to watch every day for an update finally started updating again every few days. Unfortunately, their current arc is so insulting that I've removed them from my daily internet watch list. I might go back in a few months to see if they're even trying to be funny again.
One thing I've noted in my life is that a constant barrage of insults and attacks is unlikely to get anyone to improve whatever it is that they're doing. It's more likely to make them want to quit altogether than have to put up with more and more of it. If you want to ruin something, just give nothing more than insults and attacks. Pile it on.

But if you like something, then be supportive. Give them a reason to continue.
I'm here, still reading the comic. I still like it, and I'll continue to be here until they decide that they don't want to do it anymore.

Prowl - 2015/6/15
not sure I understand why anyone would be worried about this comic riding OotS' coattails, given that it says in very readable font front and center in the header that it was inspired by OotS.

The whole point WAS to ride the coattails, wasn't it? Nothing wrong with that, that's what a lot of people came here for in the first place anyway.

Nona Reverse - 2015/6/14
The clouds vibrate from deep drum rolls. It is presently time for my trolliest comment ever. This is about to be serious. My breath heaves with preparation. My eyes tighten in an anxiety of focus, and my pupils are dilated. I've posted many of my suggestions as past comments, and expect that those who I intended to have seen the comments already, or will forever ignore me. So I'll just throw it out, now. My last advice, however corrupt - If Quigley worried about people thinking his comic rode the coattails of OotS, his fears are founded. Thanks, Dypen.

Destrustor - 2015/6/13
""I'm glad to see that it looks like Destrustor is picking up my torch of the ruthless-but-justified constructive criticism garnished with a sprig of "JSHII what even are you" that adds to the dish. Good on you, Destrustor.""

I pretty much said everything I wanted to say, really. The last time I posted a comment on this site was when the vote was had to choose between getting the infodump and finding people to continue the comic. I don't expect my average comments-per-year ratio will increase noticeably.

JHSII - 2015/6/13
Trolling from Anon. At least he admits that trolling is pretty much the only reason he comes here. No surprise on that.

Anon - 2015/6/12
I guess I say that largely because to be honest, while I think the premise of this comic was interesting enough, I didn't LOVE it even from the beginning. It felt to me like a OotS knockoff (rather than an homage or whatever) and although they were building up for a decent enough plot arc, I felt it was poorly paced (I mean, having an Epic level caster be a driving force necessarily dwarfs all the others) and wasn't really that witty or clever. So truthfully, I'm not that sad to see it go down the tubes, and antagonizing JHSII is as much entertainment as a weekly webcomic would get me. But some of you, based on the depth of your replies and legitimate constructive criticism, seem to actually want it to be better than it is. Which is why I worry that your complaints and remarks fall of deaf ears like JHSII's.

Anon - 2015/6/12
@Sciury, regarding "Filling page of JHSII vs world is not completely useless : it pass time, can be agreable in a weird masochistic sens, fill our flat lives with misplaced righteousness"

I definitely agree, and previously it was very entertaining. Much more so than the comic, and also unlike the comic we can rely on JHSII to reply promptly and dependably. So it's certainly worth it to pass the, I dunno, MONTHS between updates. But as much fun as it was, it's kind of like eating your favorite food every day, it gets repetitive and tiring. Especially since JHSII is definitely not putting the same spluttering anger into their responses as they used to. At the very least they would read and misinterpret my remarks, but now they just stick on an almost copy-pasted reply of "hurr you're trolling, you're flaming, hate you, stop reading" to literally every post regardless of author or content. So that's why I'm bored of it.

I'm glad to see that it looks like Destrustor is picking up my torch of the ruthless-but-justified constructive criticism garnished with a sprig of "JSHII what even are you" that adds to the dish. Good on you, Destrustor.

JHSII - 2015/6/11
If you say that I've only made "redundant blind praise and empty rebuttals, and pleas for everyone to leave this comic for the oh-so-terrible crime of wanting it to flourish like it once did." then you clearly haven't read anything I've posted.
If you say that I've advocated "apathy and stagnation" then it's proof that you haven't read anything I've posted. I've never posted anything even remotely like that.

In fact, if those are your interpretations of what I've posted then you probably have no intention of reading what I've actually posted.

Destrustor - 2015/6/11
I did read every comment on this page, just now.

What I've seen is countless people urging the creators to step up their game, to either live up to their own promises or offer the readers a clear point of closure.
They have raised valid complaints and justified concerns about the comic's future.
You have only made redundant blind praise and empty rebuttals, and pleas for everyone to leave this comic for the oh-so-terrible crime of wanting it to flourish like it once did.

Let me make this clear: The people who complain about the current state of things do so specifically because they still care about it.

I do not hate the comic; I just hate to see it dying like this. I complain in the hopes that doing so will provoke a change in the current direction.

I still love this comic, and I want more of it; which is exactly why I'm dissatisfied with the current situation.

It's possible to love something yet still find faults with it.

Your advocacy of apathy and stagnation is doing more harm to this comic than anyone's complaints.

JHSII - 2015/6/11
At least the trolls have a purpose - come here and flame me.
Doing anything else would be too hard.

JHSII - 2015/6/11
Maybe you should read what's actually been posted, Destrustor.
No, that would take too much effort.

Destrustor - 2015/6/11
I don't see how pointing out a serious problem with the comic is in any way "flaming".

I also don't see how saying "if you're not happy just leave", which, in this situation, is functionally indistinguishable from saying "just let all the readers abandon the comic instead of fixing the glaring problems at hand" to the authors, is helping anyone in any way.

JHSII - 2015/6/11
As I previously posted:
Flame the comic = good
Flame the authors = good
Flame the artists = good

Point out that the person doing the flaming has never actually done anything to help and doesn't need to come back if they hate the comic that much = is the problem

I want to thank the trolls for proving me right.

Sciury - 2015/6/11
I noticed, but only recently.
He was decent before.

Filling page of JHSII vs world is not completely useless : it pass time, can be agreable in a weird masochistic sens, fill our flat lives with misplaced righteousness

And mainly, https://xkcd.com/386/
we cant let someone be wrong or agressive on the internet

Destrustor - 2015/6/10
Because, as I said, I still like this comic.
I just want to see something done about this slow death before I actually lose interest for good.

JHSII - 2015/6/10
And yes, Prowl is famous the famous guy from the internet.

JHSII - 2015/6/10
As for Destrustor; 'The logic of "most of the people who can't help need to just leave, and those who can help should shut up and do it"' was never the logic I used.
What I said specifically, and the logic I used was "If you no longer like the comic, then no one is forcing you to come here."
If it's "just wasting everyone's time", then why are you still here?

JHSII - 2015/6/10
Of course, Anon accuses me of trolling. He doesn't even try to have a constructive conversation, just throws around insults. At least he admits that it was fun, but he "thinks" it's time to put it to rest. For once I agree - it is time for him to put his trolling to rest.

Anon - 2015/6/10
Guys, have you not kind of noticed that JHSII is the actual troll? You're playing into it by trying to have a constructive conversation with him, but notice that those aren't actually going anywhere. He just spouts the same thing again and again. It was fun, but I think it's time to put it to rest. Can we stop filling up comment thread after comment thread with JHSII vs. The World?

Destrustor - 2015/6/10
JHSII, The problem with asking to help instead of complaining is that, well, not everyone can help. Not everyone has the time to offer art, or labor, or money or whatever could help the comic come back on track. What are these people to do, except offer a clear plea for the authors to try harder? While I'm sure they do know already, what is complacency going to make them do about it? People need reminders in life sometimes, and the people complaining are simply trying to do that.
I do believe that the people who complain still like the comic, which is why they even complain in the first place; we want to see the comic stay alive, and we're doing what little we can to try to shake things up, if only to precipitate some kind of closure.
I am personally close to doing just what you suggest and leave, but I still have hope for this comic, which is exactly why I feel the need to complain about the glacial pace; This comic is dying and something needs to be done before it's too late.
And it needs to be done on the creator's side; I hope I don't need to remind you that having people offer their time and skills to sustain this comic has already happened once, and we're right back to square one in regards to that.
It shouldn't be the reader's job to live up to the creator's promises. It's not a solution.
The logic of "most of the people who can't help need to just leave, and those who can help should shut up and do it" just means that no one has any right to complain about anything ever. I don't agree with this. I still like this comic enough to keep checking on it, but I don't want to see it continue to wither like this. I have nothing of use to offer to this, except my voice as a reminder to the creators that their audience is slowly dying like their comic.
So I'm complaining right now: Something needs to be done, and it's the sole responsibility of the creators; shape up or pull the plug, because this is just wasting everyone's time.

Prowl - 2015/6/7
Holy cow! I didn't realize that JHSII knew Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert, personally!


Me - 2015/6/6
They've been at it for how long, and it still sucks?

How much 'help' would actually do any good, and would they even listen?

JHSII - 2015/6/6
Ok, I just want to make sure I understand Prowl;

Flame the comic = good
Flame the authors = good
Flame the artists = good

Point out that the person doing the flaming has never actually done anything to help and doesn't need to come back if they hate the comic that much = is the problem

Yep, that about sums it up.

Prowl - 2015/6/6
I see that the previous posts of mine were wasted on you. Let me then briefly recap, using an expression I am no doubt not alone in feeling: bite me.

JHSII - 2015/6/5
Thanks for proving my point, Prowl. No "helpfulness" of any kind from you, just false accusations of whining and whatever.

Nobody's forcing you to come here.

Prowl - 2015/6/5
@jhsii - whine all you like, it doesn't change either a) the math or b) the clear misrepresentation given here: http://antiheroescomic.com/about#about4

So, for any sane person that says the project is off track. If you're shouting down people who note that fact, then you are obstructing the actual helpfulness - in this case, constructive criticism - that you claim to want so much.

If the authors are so horribly upset as you are at this audience feedback, they can turn off the comments section on a whim. That they haven't says they aren't.

Nona Reverse - 2015/6/4

"If the people who once liked the comic now hate it - and they've proven that they do by their posts - then they can do what I did with the comic that became insulting. They can delete it from their bookmarks and not return. It wasn't - and isn't - that difficult to do. Let the rest of us enjoy the comic."
"As for this comic, people like you complain a lot, but I have yet to see any actual effort at helping with anything."

Nona Reverse (that%u2019s me!)
"If Dypen threw Finx, Eldhin, Zurie, or Rallut in the last panel, they could work it into the story and move things along. The last hundred pages morphed into filler, so the amount of disruption it will cause might be offset by the opportunity to derive drama, and create a plot-heavy moment for at least a couple strips."
I%u2019ll think of something original to add, eventually. Give me a minute, please?

JHSII - 2015/6/4
@Prowl - I was hoping someone would go there.

I follow a number of comics. One of them, which used to be funny and updated every week or two, became decidedly less funny as the author has chosen to take the comic off on a bunch of anti-American ranting. It stopped being funny and started being insulting. So, what did I do? Did I harangue the author with a bunch of insults and criticisms and complaints? No. I simply deleted the comic off of my bookmarks - and I haven't been back since.

Another comic that was usually updated every week had a strip in mid-December and then nothing for months. In late April, the author posted on the comic blog that he had been busy, but he had several months worth of comics to post. A new one would go up every couple of days. About 3 days later, the next one went up. Then nothing - up until about a week ago. Now, are there a lot of complaints and attacks posted to the author on his blog? No. The people posting are generally supportive. We know his life isn't based around the comic. I still generally check his comic every day, because it's in the bookmarked list of things to check, and I do await the next posting.

As for this comic, people like you complain a lot, but I have yet to see any actual effort at helping with anything. Chris, Alexander, and Jordan stepped forward - and the people most who complain the most didn't.
If they don't like the pace of the postings, then how about some offers to help? But no, that would take too much effort, wouldn't it?

I stand by my original statement. Nobody's forcing anyone to come here. If the people who once liked the comic now hate it - and they've proven that they do by their posts - then they can do what I did with the comic that became insulting. They can delete it from their bookmarks and not return. It wasn't - and isn't - that difficult to do.
Let the rest of us enjoy the comic.

Prowl - 2015/6/4
@JHSII - you don't think that "this story won't wrap up in the lifetime of any person reading it" to be a valid complaint?

In the last 12 months there have been 15 comics total, and this is being generous and treating filler as full comics.

Compare to, say, Our Little Adventure (another OotS-inspired comic) which put out 61 comics in the same period of time. That works out to a little over one comic per week, so it's not like it's on a particularly aggressive publication schedule, yet that author is still four times more productive than this team here.

I assert that it is time for some philosophical questions to be answered definitively; questions such as "why bother continuing AH when the story will never reach a conclusion?"

One thing I know for sure is that getting mad at people who are interested in the comic but understandably frustrated by the glacial publication schedule is not a route to a resolution of any outstanding issue.

JHSII - 2015/6/3
Sciury, maybe you should direct your comments at the people who flame the authors of the comic, the comic itself, and anyone who dares to say they still support the comic and the authors. I guess that's ok with you.
They still can't answer why, since they now hate the comic, they still come here? I guess asking why they still come here to continually attack the comic is flaming them too.
Trash the comic, trash the authors, that's acceptable. Respond to those trashing and I'm the flaming troll.
Fair enough.

Sciury - 2015/6/3
I was refering an earlier discussion, where someone (i believe anon, but it might have been someone else) made the effort of a constructive comment and added one insulting line at the end. Of course, you systematically reacted to the last line and never even alluded to the rest.

As for your precise question, you were answered, and ignored the answer. To sum up : somes critizise the slow pace, other the lack of update, other the lack of structure. any group has reason to appreciate the comic and vocalise what they thinc hinder it.

I call you flaming because you (now) attack the people, not the contents, are dismissive and come of as authoritarist. Descending on any negative comment, without clear description of why you are upset by them.

JHSII - 2015/6/3
Sciury, I'm the one flaming the community? I think you're aiming at the wrong target. I'm the one responding to the insulting statements with specific questions about how, if they no longer like the comic, why do they still come here?
And, I do read entire comments. Of course, since I don't respond to each and every word and line in the comments, I guess you could read into my comments anything you want to read into them.

Prowl - 2015/6/3
At current rates of updates (5 strips in 8 months, leaving aside that they are filler and not plot-relevant), this gives 7.5 updates per year.

Assuming we're only halfway through the whole plot (and I would guess we are not halfway there yet), it will be another 46.7 years before the strip wraps up. If we're only 1/3 of the way through the plot, then the end of the story is scheduled to occur sometime around the year 2108.

There's the elephant in the Anti-Heroes(tm) room. Either step it up or shut it down, all this 8-strips-a-year stuff is doing is disappointing everyone who has any interest in the project.

Sciury - 2015/6/3
Can you precise a bit ?
Nona criticize a lot, but offer what he think is a solution : dropping or delaying the filler and switching to a villain arc, because those character are richer and less used

Prowl is not a regular poster, so you cannot judge him on just that

The other since your last post did not critic.

On the other hand, you keeps flamming the commentor, with vagues, generic and insulting statement. While often only reading the last line of their comment ("proven" convincibly by anon)

JHSII - 2015/6/2
And the people who are the most critical do the least to help with anything.

Nona Reverse - 2015/6/1
I come back after two months, to find fifty well-educated comments and one new strip. I'm starting to miss . . . every villain in the comic. If Dypen threw Finx, Eldhin, Zurie, or Rallut in the last panel, they could work it into the story and move things along. The last hundred pages morphed into filler, so the amount of disruption it will cause might be offset by the opportunity to derive drama, and create a plot-heavy moment for at least a couple strips. Dypen seems to feel obliged to continue filler, but no one cares if they give it a proper conclusion. It doesn't help. Getting back to the story, and mentioning none of this ever again, to leave it entirely out of context, should offend nobody.

Prowl - 2015/5/30
I'm so old, I remember when this comic had a plot and a bright future.

Bih - 2015/5/22
I like how the lady is in her proper religious regalia.

Tiri - 2015/5/22
I think Zara already said he was done with the storyline when he handed the comic over to Dypen.

W. - 2015/5/20
"troll are not agressive, they just attack when they are hungry
they are always hungry"
(NWN, description of troll)
OTOH Dypen have probably reached the end of what Zara gave them (hence the filler and slow update) and cannot add there own idea for some reason. So there is nothing to release.
Am i wrong?
I still enjoy the comic, although a rewrite to concentrate, center it could be nice (except in the fact it would impede even further the progress).
Sorry for the wall

JHSII - 2015/5/19
Yes, the trolls are a humorless bunch.

Me - 2015/5/19
If you're looking for humor, you're in the wrong place.

JHSII - 2015/5/19
Could someone tell me where something is?

Tiri - 2015/5/19
At this point I just wish Zara would release the whole plot. Not to say that the current people who are working on the comic now are bad, but the rate of comics has reduced to about one every 1.5 months and only 1 out of 4 is actually even a little interesting.

Anon - 2015/5/18
W, although I am DEFINITELY the kind of person who would take on an alter-ego just to cause trouble, I have the great pleasure of confirming that JHSII is in fact as much of a real-life caricature as they appear to be, and I'm not writing their lines whatsoever. (Except for that time a dozen strips back or so when I did for a little while, and they got so mad about it.

JHSII - 2015/5/18
All Praise Banjo!!

JHSII - 2015/5/18
W, please don't insult me.

GuardiaanAngel - 2015/5/18
Omg and now the reference in the latest OOTS episode Very happy

I love this Very happy

W. - 2015/5/18
A long time since i saw this comic, the reference to OOTS made me smile.

As for the commenter, my current theory is that Anon and JHSII are in fact the same person, or know each other.

Sciury - 2015/5/18
Pannicking happen and can freeze anyone...
Good to know you triumphed over this obstacle.

On the other hand,the current arc is a bit unstructured, maybe you could cut it earlier , add a skip and restart another with a clear (|sound) point?

Anon - 2015/5/15
Hahahaha, hahaha yes, this is so funny! It's really quite funny indeed! This Banjo character and the amusing japes we see due to the character! Team Dypen really are brilliant for making up something this good!
Oh wait.

alex - 2015/5/15
I %uD83D%uDC97 banjo

JHSII - 2015/5/15
Hail Banjo!!

Mad Lemmey - 2015/5/14
Like what you've done gents.

JHSII - 2015/5/13
More trolling from Anon. No effort yet at having an honest conversation, just insults.

Anon - 2015/5/13
So...are you deriving some sort of satisfaction from "having the last word"? Because you claim to hate when I speak, but only by replying to me do I have the opportunity to speak again. If you didn't reply, I wouldn't either, and your beloved corpse of a comic would fester on in peace. One of us is taking this conversation far more seriously than the other. What's eating you?

JHSII - 2015/5/13
And Anon proves that he reads what he wants to read rather than what is actually there. He just posts more insults and trolling.

Anon - 2015/5/13
You always condemn my remarks JHSII, yet you continually validate them with your responses and you never have anything to say without them. Do you hate me the same way the moon hates the sun; ever dwarfed by its glow yet entirely dark should it cease to be?

JHSII - 2015/5/13
More insults from Anon. Nothing to add to any honest conversation.

Anon - 2015/5/13
By the way Bigfoot, in OotS Banjo was referenced not over 100 strips ago, but a mere 33. Banjo appeared in 949 and was then referenced in 951. So I wouldn't say the character/joke's been thrown into the breeze for anyone to just pick up.

Rammistain - 2015/5/13
Hey! I want to complain that Banjo's eyes in the last panel look almost normal! Raaah! j/k

Anon - 2015/5/13
First of all, looks like the squeaky wheel gets the grease. The comic updated sooner after my complaint than your praise, eh JHSII?

Secondly...oh my god. Jesus Christ. This is just deplorable. I've argued for a long time that this comic has been largely ripping off Order of the Stick (in terms of art style obviously and meta-humor) and doing a poor job of it, and have been met with vitriolic responses of "IT'S INSPIRED BY IT AND IT'S A HOMAGE THAT MEANS IT'S NOT SHAMELESSLY COPYING FOR THE SAKE OF POPULARITY!" Dr-oe, Dr-ow, po tae to, po tah to, but I digress. This isn't homage. This is directly saying "Hey, remember that comic that is much better than this one? The one we draw all inspiration from? Well, we can't really think of a joke right now, so let's just take an established joke from that better comic and let you remember how funny /that/ is by applying it here." This joke can't even work if the audience hasn't read OotS, and if they have then they know it's just not a funny joke. What the hell are you doing here?

Rammistain - 2015/5/12
What is McPedro doing here? Are they going to feature a fight of girls with slingshots or sticks made of Hazel wood?

Subzero008 - 2015/5/10
I'm just glad we moved past the stupid puppet gimmick and we can move back to the actual plot.

Bigfoot - 2015/5/9
@ Me

Given its a comic that was directly inspired by OOTS and the last time I can remember Banjo being mentioned was over well 100 strips ago, I think your comment is entirely unjust.

Admittedly however it is filler and has been for a while. I maintain hope that the webcomic will pick up again when the authors have returned to the main plot. As they mention they are attempting in the authors comments

someboddy - 2015/5/9
Elan will be mad that she stole Banjo. And that he wasn't invited to a plot recap meeting.

JHSII - 2015/5/8
I like it Very happy

Me - 2015/5/8
Trying to ride the coat tails of a GOOD comic is always a bad sign. And here I didn't think AH could get any worse...

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