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Mute
posted by Jordan on 2009/3/21 (Comics)
Since I missed an update before, I figured I would upload this one as soon as "Saturday" technically starts. So, here's a new comic.
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Comments
Well have you thought about thing that scrolls maybe lost? I prefer to be on safe side. Self mind is best hideout. besides if you are reserching a spell it is always a good idea to add few backfires in case someone gets hand on it... I precisly know how to stop my epic... it doesnt even require epic magic to do so...
As long as "civilians" participate in bilding defences, manufacturing food and weapons for an army they are part of war infrastructure. If there are for snipers on the building I do not care how many civilians are in. I would not send my troops to capture it. Rather I would blow whole building. Same with factory weapons.
No they are still humans... biology would concur. But "the list of human rights" isn't exactly word of god.
“Still even a leader of the nation should put interests of his nation above anything else. there is no real difference there.”I was saying that the leader of a nation is more likely to put the interests of his nation first than a leader of an army is to put the interests of his troops first, since armies are often mobilized for a specific reason.
With a Mass Hold Person, you could capture the enemy later. The difference I was getting at is that you can distinguish between enemies and civilians.
“Besides those "epics" are limited and usually useful on stationary targets...”I don't know what huge Time Mitigating Factor (the standard 10 Minute casting time isn't much for moving a standing army out of a city) you slapped on your Sunburst, but I could've sworn (can't find it on D20SRD, though) that scrolls are essentially pre-cast. Completing the spell never takes more than a standard action. Are you smashing through that city to attack a standing army? Because that's pretty improbable in and of itself. If you're attacking more permanent fortifications, Sunburst still comes in handy.
“No good commander would sarcrifice his own troops to protect enemy.”Since when, aside from RTSes, are civilians considered the enemy?
“When someone without uniform starts fighting in war forfeits about all rights under any jurisdictions.”
Except maybe for jurisdicitons that care about some kind of human rights? I don't think fighting without uniform strips someone of their legal humanity.
Mass hold person? You would leave potential for enemy behind you whyle there is still enemy infront of you? What if you had to retreat in few weeks? That is called suicide. Simply: the city is a mountain pass fortress you can not waste troops to guard it... and quite frankly you need your army to win the WAR. You don´t need to take needles loses in any battle. Besides those "epics" are limited and usually useful on stationary targets... before you cast it enemy army moves. Not much for "epic scrolls"...
- Paladin troops... well and we are there. No good commander would sarcrifice his own troops to protect enemy.
As for guantanamo... well... guerilla warriors/ partisans/ terrorist most armies shoot them on sight. When someone without uniform starts fighting in war forfeits about all rights under any jurisdictions.
“He does not work toward his advantage- he works toward adavantage of all people he is in charge... that is great difference.”
It's still based on "these people matter, more-or-less everyone else does not". It doesn't translate directly, but the parallels are quite strong. Even aside from that, it completely neglects the purpose of the troops chartered. You're talking about the leader of an army, not a nation.
A total list of improbabilities in the situation:
-The Paladin has a scroll of
-No surrender no retreat, even if the Paladin were to, say, show this spell off. This includes civilians, where you can't even use the classic "keep your civilians in a certain building/area, and we'll leave it alone" strategy.
-The city of 20,000 in what seems to be a vital choke-point has no strategic worth.
-Despite this, you just have to get past it, and there's absolutely no other way than going through.
-The Paladin's troops have no qualms whatsoever about leveling the place and killing every civilian, in a setting where chivalry is generally somewhat alive. Or does their willingness to risk their lives to avoid such a course of action count for nothing?
That's only "standard" as a hypothetical situation, or a railroading and bastard DM. Reminds me of a classic Guantanamo Bay situation. "This fellow you've captured knows where the terrorists' nukes are. He won't tell you otherwise, and definitely will tell the truth if you torture him. Torture one man (ten, a hundred, the ratio is still infentessimal), or have half the US blown up?"
No surrender no retreat- I said assume... it is not unreal even in real world...
Well... I had that capability in few campains... I called that spell a "Sunrift" creation of it cost me a lot... it was practicaly a fusion bomb. Very small portal to center of sun that lasts few miliseconds... (Definitelly looking awesome with timestop efect...)
If he desperately need the city he wouldn´t level it...
Standard situations aren´t gague of anything because everyone knows what to do.
“His sole purpouse is to command his forces for Their greater good in spite of everyone else.”
Sounds like a commercial corporation. That's a pretty amoral-biased definition of "leader". Like saying a person's quality is determined only by how he works towards his own advantage.
False Dichotomies make jerks of us all. Why is it a no retreat, no surrender policy, even for the civilians? Why does our leader so desperately need that city? Why do you have magic powerful enough to level a city with no resistance that can't be used for anything else? Is a single improbable situation like this an effective gague of leadership?
Assume you are Lawful good leader... Take a city with 20000 civilians and 5000 defenders. No strategic worth to you but an obstacle. You can't go around and you really need to win as enemy has no surrender, no retreat policy. If you blast away whole city 25000 enemies wil die. If you atack konventionaly minimaly 10000 civilians will die, 5000 thousand defenders and 8000 of your man will die storming defences. Will you wage this kind of war? Paladin should as there 2000 souls that will live... Commander is entrusted with lives of his soldiers, he can sarcrifice them for strategic gain, but if he ever gives any "good" infront wellfare of his soldiers he deserves to be hanged on nearest tree.
Blackguards do not have this problem... their commanding skills are hardly affected by any kind of morality.
“Paladins fight because it is about only one thing they can do...”
Why are Paladins fighting morally ambiguous wars?
Come to think of it, assuming it's not a "kill or be killed" situation, why's it so deadly for people to start questioning their involvement in a war? Especially leaders, who can do something about it beyond deserting?
What's the difference in magnitude between Lawful Good and Paladin Lawful Good? Or are all leaders behaving Lawful Good crappy leaders? It's not as if leaders generally need to depend only on their own class features.
Doopliss: Paladins fight because it is about only one thing they can do...
about Varsuvius... He can not maintan his current state indefinitelly... eventualy lack of trancig will cause him to loose his focus... Funny he was not focused for months...
and V isn´t good... he is neutral
@Paeris Kiran - Eldhin isn't a terrible commander. He's a pretty damn confused commander.
You are kind of right, but The Giant wouldn't put this whole V arc in if everything was just going to be ok after.... It would be lame if after somethig so dramatic everything returned to its original place.... I think that its gonna be like Star Wars and Padme (V's Spouse) will be like "OMG whaa have you done!!!!", hurting V even more and finishing his turn to the side of Evil.Anyways, he looks cooler when hes evil. XD
Amaretto: V will be okay all he needs is something to knock him uncousios... however I still think he made right decision... That soulsplice deal could work perfectly even the other way... He is only partially in command now... then he will also have influence on whatever will he do... Well the deal he made was honest to say the least... and Demons also need Snarl taken down... well at least after few gods will "die"
The fact that I forgot who he was doesn't really help his case. He wasn't the former-red shirt promoted to side character, right? The one who got married to the other (now pregnant) Mauve shirt? IIRC, they weren't pallys, either, just regular city guards and Hinjo was Shojo's...son? Nephew?
Great Comic BTW!
Also, I just read the new OOTS and Vaarsuvius is getting kind of scary.... o.0
Yeah, Eldhin is a badass. This comic didn't cause me to believe that, but it certainly confirmed it.
Eldhin in #112 was Badass. Supreme badass.
@Hremsfield - Not a paladin. And what's wrong with Hinjo?
@Knight13 - How can you not like Eldhin? He's supreme badass here.
I've really loved Eldhin as a character since his entrance in comic #112.
Also, you don't like Hinjo?
Wow. We've all said that someone before. Now it actually worked! XDand Knight13: I actually agree. Eldhin might be the first paladin I've ever liked.
...He isn't even a paladin, is he?
FUNNYEST-JOKE-YET!!!!
